Stargate Atlantis: John/Teyla

[tielan]

Title: Lovers And Fighters
Author: tielan
Pairing: John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagen
Fandom: Stargate Atlantis
Spoilers: Up to episode 2.20 - Allies

When it comes to fandom, John /Teyla is the red-headed bastard child of the Atlantis fandom. I've seen responses to it ranging from the very simple 'EWWW! YUCK!' to the melodramatic ' It'll destroy the show and everything that's good, pure, and true in the Stargate Universe!' and passing through 'I can't believe an intelligent person like you would actually like that pairing!' on the way.

On the whole, it's not a popular pairing; if you're in it for popularity, then you'd be better off shipping another couple. I'm not looking for popular, I'm looking for something that works for me. And Teyla Emmagen/John Sheppard works for me.

I have a decided fondness for girls who can kick ass, and within a couple of episodes, it was clear that if Teyla wasn't going to be the 'feminist icon' that usually turns up in sci-fi shows (a la Sam Carter, or Kara Thrace), then she was definitely going to be the 'woman who can take care of herself' - and if there's one thing I've never been able to resist in a show, it's a girl who can take care of herself.

John/Teyla was obvious to me from the moment John let his fingers trail off Teyla's lapels - nothing more than a hint of attraction, tending towards friendship, but enough for me to sit up and go, 'Ooh. I think I like them!' To be honest, it took another sixteen episodes before I was fully convinced I liked the show, and another episode on top of that before I was sold on the pairing, but the ride, while full of people telling me just how 'wrong' I am, has definitely been worth it.

So here's my ship manifesto: why I ship John Sheppard and Teyla Emmagen.


Introduction

I'm a lover, I'm a winner, I'm a fighter
Gonna set your soul on fire
A quick introduction to the characters:

Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard is the military commander of the Atlantis expedition, which was sent to the Pegasus galaxy to discover more about a race of people only known as the Ancients. He's the leader of the primary outgoing team for Atlantis and the strongest known instance of the Ancient's Technology Activation (ATA) gene.

Teyla Emmagen is the leader of a Pegasus culture known as the Athosians - a group of hunter-nomads who have seen better technological times, but are reduced to living on the run from the Wraith. She and her people have allied themselves with the Atlantis expedition as a means of ridding themselves of the Wraith, an alien race who drain the life-force of humans to live. Presently, she's living in Atlantis among the personnel from Earth while her own people live on the planet's mainland. She's a member of John Sheppard's team, and is presently trusted by both him and the personnel of the city as though she's one of their own people.

The two of them are friends and colleagues, working together on the team; capable, competent, and controlled. There's an awareness of each other that's been shown from the start, and there are hints that they mean more to each other than just friends and team-mates.

But we'll start with their interactions from the beginning.


Interactions

Can I walk up beside you?
Can I speak your name
From the moment John steps forward and begins introducing himself to Teyla in Rising, it's clear that the Athosian woman has made an impression on John. When his superior officer is inclined to dismiss the Athosians because they 'do not trade with strangers', John steps in and begins introducing himself, attempting friendliness where intimidation has failed. His introductions - and later interactions - are directed at Teyla rather than Halling (the first grown Athosian they met) or Teyla's 'shadow' - the man who hovers at her shoulder. Even at this early stage he wants to be known to her – and, moreover, thought well of by her. Shortly after their meeting, Teyla notes that John's superior officer looks through her as though she wasn't there; John's immediate question is, "Do I?"

John's interest is confirmed when Teyla takes him to see the carvings on the wall of a cave where she used to play as a child, (giving new meaning to the traditional question, 'Would you like to look at my etchings?') and he finds an amulet her father gave to her, long ago. As he fastens it around her throat, John is reluctant to take his hands from her - his fingers linger on the lapels of her coat and his eyes linger on her face before Teyla looks down at her amulet and John realises the intimacy he's initiated.

By the end of the episode, Teyla has accepted John's overture of friendship (and implicitly an alliance with Atlantis), touching her forehead to his in the traditional Athosian gesture of friendship and respect.

It's fairly clear there's an initial attraction between them, although it isn't visibly played upon through the series and they settle to team-mates, allies, and friends.

Still, John is Teyla's first and foremost ally in Atlantis, including her in the social life, defending her in the face of her detractors, and giving her his support wherever possible.

In the second episode, Hide And Seek, John attempts to make friends with the Athosian kids while they're in Atlantis, and introduces Teyla to some sports of Earth - namely, football. On an expedition where people initially seem more concerned with the delineation between 'them' and 'us', John tries to bridge that gap. Again, Teyla seems more bemused by John's enthusiasm than actually enthusiastic about football, but she does make the attempt to understand it.

In Suspicion, when Teyla is accused of being a Wraith spy, John is her first and foremost defender against the accusations. Even when it's discovered that her necklace is sending off a signal to the Wraith, he is quick to point out that it was his actions that caused the necklace to begin transmitting the signal in the first place, and that Teyla herself is innocent of the specific accusation against her.

During the events of Home, John goes to find Teyla, prepared to act as her guide on Earth. From the look of it, he endures a shopping expedition with a woman who's never seen a shopping mall before: as she climbs into the car, she certainly has enough bags with her. There aren't a lot of guys who dislike shopping who'll endure a shopping trip with a woman they're not at least a little interested in!

In Hot Zone, the first scene we see between Teyla and John involves them fighting against each other with wooden staves. Within the first few moments, it is clear that Teyla is training John in this mode of hand-to-hand combat, and that John is persevering, even though she beats him every time and he thinks his weapons are better. A man like John Sheppard doesn't take failure well - and if he's got better weapons and no particular need to learn these lessons, why keep taking them? Perhaps because it's Teyla doing the teaching?

When the Wraith head towards Atlantis in the episode Letters From Pegasus, John and Teyla take a trip out of the city to a planet that's en route for the Wraith in order to gauge their numbers. During this time, John is focused on the mission, while Teyla has a secondary purpose: she has friends who live on this planet and whom she wishes to offer the chance to come to Atlantis.

When situations conspire such that there is no time for them to stay to pick them up, she tells John to go and says he can come back to pick her up afterwards. Naturally, John isn't about to leave her behind, she asks him to meet her halfway - to stay and wait a little longer for her friends - her family! - to arrive. Teyla isn't going to compromise on what she sees as her responsibility to her family, and in the end, John accedes to her wish.

John's concern for Teyla in The Gift extends to taking time out in the middle of preparations for war to see her mind settled on the matter of her nightmares and The Gift she possesses that allows her to sense the Wraith's coming. In operational terms, John doesn't have the time to spare, but he makes the time for Teyla all the same, arranging a mission to an uninhabited world that might hold the key to understanding her gift.

In the same episode, Teyla is concerned with John's good opinion. As she confronts him in the gateroom, there is an element of wanting to be thought competent for the job she is to perform as one of John's team. The fact that he revealed a weakness in her armour, even to someone as well-meaning as the expedition psychologist, is seen as something like a betrayal, suggesting that his regard is important.

The theme of these two seeking the good opinion of the other is a common one that reiterates through Season Two as their interaction goes up another notch in intimacy and interest.


Interest

Can you find the pieces
That I can rearrange?
Can I just be here?
In the first two seasons, John and Teyla have placed a lot of emphasis on the importance of the other's opinion about them.

Teyla wants to know that John trusts her and her judgement (in Suspicion, Letters From Pegasus and The Gift), John considers it important that Teyla agree with his decisions (most notably in Sanctuary, Letters From Pegasus, and Allies). While it can be construed only as the importance of being 'at ease' with friends and allies, it's useful to note that neither of them really give a damn what others think about them - John in particular can be relied on to do his own thing when he disagrees - but when it comes to each other, they want approval.

Although the smaller 'day to day' interactions between the characters aren't seen in the bigger story scope, the interactions we do see between John and Teyla in Season Two are significant for the indication that things are changing between them – at least on John's side.

Among the small stuff there are accusations of groping (Runner), protectiveness when she's laid out by another fighter (Duet), a lack of personal space while they're in the prison camp (Condemned), she sends Ronon to assist John when John set him to look after her (Instinct), John's head resting in her lap while recovering from a stunner shot (Lost Boys), and the fact that John is always shown watching the screens when Teyla and Michael are together (Michael) - even if it's only talking.

Among the big stuff is John kissing Teyla while his inhibitions are down, and an alien with access to John's thoughts and memories telling Teyla that John cares about her as more than just a friend.

Both kiss and confession are in mitigating circumstances - not necessarily romantic, but indicating a strong preference - at least from John to Teyla.

The kiss occurs in Conversion, after John has been infected with a retrovirus that begins rewriting his DNA, making him more bug than human. At this point in the episode, John's still human and has been allowed his usual run of the base. We see him jogging with Ronon - and managing to outlast the younger, fitter guy. We see him arguing with Elizabeth - and smashing a glass window in anger at her ruling that he's not allowed out of Atlantis.

Between those two scenes - both of them featuring a man who is still noticeably John Sheppard, albeit stronger and more reckless - John spars against Teyla, managing to beat her using only one staff instead of the usual two. When he pins her, she notes his increase in ability and calls him, 'Colonel' to which he responds, "You can call me 'John' when we're off the clock," and kisses her.

While the kiss is definitely not consensual, the fact that John kissed Teyla at all is significant to their relationship. Up until then, other than a little flirting at the start of the series, they've just been friends and team-mates, comfortable with each other, but neither visibly interested in the other.

The kiss changes things.

There've been a lot of thoughts bandied about as to why John kissed Teyla.

The simplest and most logical one is simply that he wanted to kiss her. No tricksy arguments, no far-reaching attempts to rationalise a very base and basic desire: want, take, have.

Usually, John wouldn't do this. However, John isn't 'himself' right now. The most reasonable explanation for John's actions in Conversion is not that he was 'possessed' by the Iratus retrovirus so much as that he was 'drunk' on it. When someone is drunk, they are still who they are when they're sober...but their inhibitions come down. At this point in the story, John's inhibitions are definitely down.

John challenges Ronon - and beats him. John wants Teyla - and takes her. John is angry at Elizabeth - and smashes a window. Later, he half-strangles Elizabeth when she won't send another team out to find a cure for John, but by that stage he's really not himself.

In the three scenes: one with Ronon, one with Teyla, one with Elizabeth, John is very much himself - is still John Sheppard - he's just capable of doing more than he usually is, both physically and psychologically.

At the end of the episode, John apologises to Teyla for what amounts to an assault on her, and she tells him to think nothing of it, implicitly forgiving him for what happened. To all intents and purposes, the status quo is as it was before and they're still friends.

Fast forward to the episode The Long Goodbye in which John and Elizabeth are possessed by aliens who are trying to kill each other. Teyla and Ronon have been sent to hunt them down, and Ronon's been injured in the line of fire, leaving Teyla to locate one or the other of the two possessed personnel.

Having hunted down Thalen (the alien inhabiting John), she's brought him before a video camera so Phoebus (the alien inhabiting Elizabeth) can see her enemy helpless. Using the threat of the lives of two-thirds of the expedition, Phoebus orders Teyla to kill Thalen so she can watch the last of her people's enemies die. Thalen turns to Teyla and tells her, "If you kill me, you're killing him. He cares for you - more than you know!"

For those fans of Stargate Atlantis familiar with Stargate SG-1 - the precursor show from which the Atlantis franchise developed - this confession bears a strong similarity to Jack O'Neill's confession regarding Sam Carter in the Season Four episode Divide and Conquer: "I'd rather have died myself than lose Carter...because I care about her, a lot more than I'm supposed to."

Now, while this gives a strong sense of authorial intent, it doesn't answer the question of whether what was said was meant. Thalen would have said anything to save his life, Teyla might have been willing to believe anything to spare John's - the issue being that against John's life is balanced the lives of two-thirds of the expedition.

The important thing here is that Thalen believed that his appeal might persuade Teyla to spare his life, which strongly suggests that John believed such an appeal might work on Teyla.

But John has no real reason to believe that Teyla cares about him as anything more than a friend. She shot him down in the final scene of the episode Conversion faster than Ronon Dex would shoot a Wraith, and her interactions with him are friendly and trusting, but nothing that might indicate serious emotional attachment.

Thalen has no evidence that Teyla is concerned about John as anything more than a friend and colleague - either though his own experiences with her, or through John's history with her.

And yet he makes the statement.

It suggests that if Teyla doesn't necessarily feel more than friendship for John, John still cares about her more than she imagines he does, more than just as a friend and team-mate. Why make the attempt to persuade Teyla at all when John - and Thalen with him - has to know that his life doesn't weigh up against two hundred others, when John knows - has seen with his own eyes in Letters From Pegasus - that even if Teyla will not compromise what needs to be done - not for him, and not for her?

There's a bitter element to the truth of Thalen's words. John cares about Teyla more than she knows or wants to know, more than John would ever say or want said. And yet even after the saying, Teyla shows she knows John Sheppard only too well before she walks away from him, leaving him still-tied-up and ready for delivery to the infirmary without so much as a word of encouragement or query.

And so stands the relationship between John and Teyla at the end of Season Two Atlantis.

Canonically, I'm reasonably convinced that John is interested in Teyla, but that she isn't reciprocating to the same degree - at least, not at this stage. Whether they develop it any further is up to the writers of the show, although a little bird has informed me that Season Three of Stargate Atlantis will have some John/Teyla moments worth waiting for.


Intimacies

I'm a lover, I'm a sinner, I'm a fighter!
Gonna set your soul on fire!
For me, one of the chiefest attractions of John and Teyla is in the fact that they're both fighters, more on the practical side than the idealistic.

John's less diplomatic than Teyla - a man of action - and one who doesn't always consider the consequences of his action. By contrast, she keeps her cool in almost all situations and doesn't hesitate to 'manage' him - as well as the other guys in their team - when the situation calls for it.

If I had to pick imagery for them, Teyla's the anchor to his kite; letting him fly but knowing when to let the string unwind and knowing when to pull it back. However, she's also the companion watching his six, capable of looking after herself, and more than willing to risk herself to be sure that he's okay. When she tells Ronon to go after John in Instinct, she's injured and they don't know the location of the half-crazed Wraith-girl they're hunting; but John's safety is more important than her own.

In an intimate relationship, I'd bet that John would be the possessive, affectionate one of the two, while Teyla kept her reserve in public, saving her displays of affection for private. But when she did make a public gesture of affection, people would stop and stare, because it would sizzle.

I like that Teyla's got fragments of Wraith DNA in her while John's the carrier of the strongest known Ancient gene in Earth personnel. Although they're plainly themselves - not Ancient and Wraith - what kind of genetic conflict might ensue from the fact that they carry traces of two antithetical genetic identities? Perhaps the feeling of 'difference' from their respective peoples contributes to their commonality?

I like that they're equals in strength and ability. If Teyla doesn't have the education that John's had from Earth, then she's still managed to gain the respect of the military personnel in the city, to the point where they take orders from her. It's even implied that Teyla was one of the people minding Atlantis while John, Rodney, Elizabeth and Carson were back on Earth during the episode Intruder.

I really enjoy their fighting scenes, the degree of trust between them as they spar against each other. For me, there's an innate attraction to the idea that here is someone with whom they can 'let go' - that they don't need to be 'John Sheppard, military leader of Atlantis' and 'Teyla Emmagen, absentee leader of the Athosians', that they can just be 'John' and 'Teyla' without the other responsibilities that lie heavy on their individual shoulders.

I even like the fact that the pairing is subtle and not in-your-face; that the indicators are there to be seen if you want to see it (and I do) but don't take over the whole show.

Probably the thing that most appeals to me about this pairing - and one with which it seems a lot of fans take issue - is that Teyla is both a cipher and truly independant. She doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve, she doesn't visibly panic when a crisis occurs, she doesn't need to cling to John when trouble comes although she's concerned for him and about him. There's no handwringing, no babbling, no fretting; she stays cool and calm and does what she can without getting in the way.

While Teyla may not be mouthy, snarky, vocal, or a personality given to conflict (conflict frequently being mistaken for 'chemistry') the way most 'feminist heroines' tend to be, she's capable, competent, and controlled - an aspect of female heroines that often gets derided or forgotten amidst hand-wringing women waiting for their hero to return, or aggressive heroines with an axe to grind (whether canonically or meta-canonically) against the misogyny of society.

Given the number of women who fall over John Sheppard at every turn - occasionally including Elizabeth Weir - it must be a relief for the man to meet a woman who appreciates his charm but doesn't give in to it, who makes him work for every inch of ground he gains rather than falling at his feet, and who likes him as a friend but is going to move this relationship when she is comfortable with it and not before.

I can see John as the kind of guy who doesn't mind a woman in control, or having to work to gain something - as long as he thinks it's worth it.

Judging by the textual cues in the show - and interviews with Joe Flanigan himself - John Sheppard seems to think Teyla Emmagen is worth it, even if they're not making a floor show of it.

Friends, allies, and team-mates first; come what may.



Interested in the Wonderful World of Fanfic, Fandoms, and Fen?
The John/Teyla segment of the fandom is small and scattered. There aren't a lot of us, and while there are a few archives, they're not always reliable. I've found the best way to get fic or art that meets my standards is to latch onto a good writer and encourage them in that pairing.

Communities

For those of you into LJ:

john_teyla is a community that's for all kinds of people - including those who don't necessarily see the ship but aren't totally against it.

sheppard_teyla is a community focused on the two as a pairing. I don't recommend it if you're not already into the pairing or willing to be convinced. It's also the LJ for the Sheppard/Teyla Fever yahoogroup, which is probably the most posty John/Teyla list out there.

sga_john_teyla is a PG-13 community for those who might want their pairing slightly spicy, but not red hot. It's linked to the John/Teyla yahoogroup - again, a PG-13 list.

There's also the Sheppard/Teyla thread on Gateworld - it's reasonably long, image-heavy and I wouldn't advise trying it on dial-up.

Fanfic

The stories specifically recced here are all in-character, with reasonably thought-out plots/scenarios, a sense of pacing, and very little sap. Keep in mind that I do not read widely and this list isn't the definitive guide to John/Teyla fic in the fandom, but these is the stuff that I consider exceptional.

Friendship
JT ficlet by saeva
The Briefing by sjhw_tolerance
Shatter by ladyjax
Sunrise Prophecy by allisnow - more about Teyla than about John, but impinges on their friendship at the start of the series.

I'd like to see more fic about the friendship between the characters, but that's rather rare.

Unresolved Sexual Tension
A J/T-ish ficlet by settiai
'Sin of Omission' by madjm (Chapters One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Epilogue) - a team-oriented drama from John's POV with a dash of John/Teyla
Cultural Understanding by wisdomeagle - flirting and fighting
So Maybe She's My Spock by liviapenn - the opinions of John and Teyla's team-mates about John and Teyla.
Too Much by The Moonmoth

Resolved Sexual Tension
Queen by xanthe - hot, sexy, porny, and slightly dominant.
Fractured by allisnow - this is a must-read for anyone who loves mind-bending fic. It's more drama/mystery than romance, but it's wonderfully written.

For more links and communities:

The stagesoflove community challenges for John/Teyla can be found here.

The John/Teyla segment of the Isis Awards are also a good place to find fic: Nominations and Winners.

The John/Teyla table for psych_30.

The John/Teyla table for fanfic100.

And finally, allisnow and seldear were playing 'fic-tennis' for a while back in March, although they seem to have stopped: 'Unorthodox' is Alli's most recent offering, start there, then use the links to work your way backwards through their stories.

John and Teyla, lovers and fighters: hopefully, you've come to a better understanding of why some of us ship them!

--

The banner above was made by seldear, although we don't know who put together the photomanip. If you know, let us know so we can credit.

The lyrics quoted are from 'Renegade Fighter' by Zed.

Big thanks to the peeps from john_teyla who beta'd this for me, made suggestions, and offered advice. It was muchly appreciated!

Comments

[goddess09807.livejournal.com]

OK so I'm at school and I can't talk a lot, but I REALLY loved this. I think my favorite part was

Probably the thing that most appeals to me about this pairing - and one with which it seems a lot of fans take issue - is that Teyla is both a cipher and truly independent. She doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve, she doesn't visibly panic when a crisis occurs, she doesn't need to cling to John when trouble comes although she's concerned for him and about him. There's no handwringing, no babbling, no fretting; she stays cool and calm and does what she can without getting in the way.

While Teyla may not be mouthy, snarky, vocal, or a personality given to conflict (conflict frequently being mistaken for 'chemistry') the way most 'feminist heroines' tend to be, she's capable, competent, and controlled - an aspect of female heroines that often gets derided or forgotten amidst hand-wringing women waiting for their hero to return, or aggressive heroines with an axe to grind (whether canonically or meta-canonically) against the misogyny of society.

Especially the paragraph above, because one of the things that irritates me about how people view women is that supposedly if a woman isn't loud and brash and willing to force her opinion on other's then she's not a strong woman. I hate that kind of thinking.

My favorite thing about Teyla is that she is all about quite strength. She does have a need to prove her worth, but she never rubs her strength in people's face. I love how she is comfortable in her skin and is confident in her self and her abilities. I love how damn COMPETENT she is. Teyla kicks ass in all that she does.

I will come and comment again 'cause class is almost over, bu tI just want to say this essay rocked and outlines why I love John/Teyla so much.

[raisintorte.livejournal.com]

I'm big multi-shipper and I love reading why people enjoy certain pairs. While I don't 'ship John/Teyla, I do see the relationship, and I really enjoyed reading why you 'ship them.

Teyla is both a cipher and truly independant. She doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve, she doesn't visibly panic when a crisis occurs, she doesn't need to cling to John when trouble comes although she's concerned for him and about him. There's no handwringing, no babbling, no fretting; she stays cool and calm and does what she can without getting in the way.

I used to dislike and find Teyla annoying, but now I really enjoy her character for a lot of these reasons. I love watching her in a crisis.

Canonically, I'm reasonably convinced that John is interested in Teyla, but that she isn't reciprocating to the same degree - at least, not at this stage.

I couldn't agree more.

The simplest and most logical one is simply that he wanted to kiss her. No tricksy arguments, no far-reaching attempts to rationalise a very base and basic desire: want, take, have.

This is quite possibly the best explanation for the kiss that I have read.

[tielan]

This is quite possibly the best explanation for the kiss that I have read.

Often, it just seems that people will twist themselves into knots to claim that John didn't really want to kiss Teyla, or that the retrovirus invalidates what he was doing.

Sometimes the simplest explanation really is the correct one.

[natacup82.livejournal.com]

I don't really have time to say much other than this is just spot on for so many of the reasons I like this pairing. But I do have to say that the apology in Conversion was at best half assed, kind of like a 'yeah, I need to apologize but I'm not exactly sorry' sort of thing...at least that's the way it seemed to me.

[tielan]

It's quite possible that he wanted to apologise for how it happened, just not necessarily for what happened. I took the apology at the surface level - he apologised, she accepted, status quo retained.

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

Absolutely excellent manifesto. You pretty much targeted all the major points in your post regarding the pros of the relationship and the insignificant cons that are continuously projected by non-j/t shippers.

There is one thing I would like to mention. This is regards to the comment of Teyla and her feelings regarding John. I do feel actually in Season 2 that they developed Teyla's feelings for John, I won't deny that John's position was clear. But as you mentioned in 'Lost Boys' I feel that was the first moment that we see Teyla showing some feeling towards John.

Overall something that can be easily overlooked, but it says a lot in it's magnitude and taking into account Teyla and John's past interactions. Teyla had his head on her lap. There was no need for that. She could have taken her jacket off and put it under his head or just have left it on the bench, but she chose to hold it.

Seeing that came as a surprise to me, and then look on her face when he got up, or even the length of time it took him to get up from her lap. I felt that moment was very telling.

Or let's look to 'Coup D'etat' and the way Teyla looked when she heard about what happened to John. Not to mention the various episodes in regards to her team mate, this is all included with Instinct. And of course her words in 'Allies'. I have to say that I feel that Teyla's feelings were touched upon, of course not in the same way as Shep; but we can see that something is coming from her end, and it's not totally unrequited.

I'm a womanist and I love the potrayal of Teyla in this fashion. I wouldn't want her to be a feminist....ah and the great divide between a feminist and a womanist. Anyway, she's a woman who knows her own worth and doesn't feel a need to "prove" herself. As we saw in the 'The Siege 2' with Colonel Everett. She knows who she is, and what she is going to do...she just decides to inform you. I had initially felt she had dealt with sexism, but now I'm seeing it as more of a cultural divide. I tend to find overly feminist characters not only annoying but seem to be made into monkey's at times by male writers. Where their very uppity and self righteous one moment and then quickly put in their place by a male counterpart.

I appreciate that this isn't the case with Teyla nd we haven't seen something like that. Something else which I like about Teyla which helps John. She's not about baggage, she's light weight and unpuzzling without being predictable. She's stable without being a doormat so to speak.

I also find that John finds something in Teyla that is rarely acknowledge. She's pretty stripped of subterfuge. When she speaks of honor, integrity, comopassion, openness....she sincerely means it. Even in 'Michael'. I think that John sees that in Teyla and wants to nurture that, this is seen in "Suspicion", "LFP", "Michael", and "Allies". It's also why she really holds a grudge when people take advantage of that trust.

Again great post..I really enjoyed it and totally agree, great link too!

VB

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

She shot him down in the final scene of the episode Conversion faster than Ronon Dex would shoot a Wraith

Oh, I think that's too simple a reading. After all, he wasn't actually making a move on her at the end of the episode; he was apologizing, and she was being mature enough not to make him uncomfortable over something that really wasn't his fault. And the fact is, if she *really* wanted to reestablish the status quo, to basically make clear that the whole experience was just too unpleasant to dwell on and they should never speak of it again, she would not have ended the conversation by calling him "John," just the way he asked her to do before kissing her. That's a propping the door ajar if I ever saw one!

[tielan]

I didn't think of that. I just figured it was something Teyla wasn't entirely comfortable with and so wanted to put behind them.

But, yes; it could be read as not so 'closing the door' as I implied.

Apparently Martin Gero, who wrote the episode Conversion was considering a more suggestive ending, but decided against it in the end.

[azarsuerte.livejournal.com]

When it comes to fandom, John /Teyla is the red-headed bastard child of the Atlantis fandom. I've seen responses to it ranging from the very simple 'EWWW! YUCK!' to the melodramatic ' It'll destroy the show and everything that's good, pure, and true in the Stargate Universe!' and passing through 'I can't believe an intelligent person like you would actually like that pairing!' on the way.

Actually, I think you're wrong about that. If you're hanging out mostly with Sheppard/Weir 'shippers, then yes, you're going to get a lot of that reaction from the more immature fans (and we do seem to have an uncommon lot of them over in S/W-dom, so many that there are times I'm tempted to switch sides just for the purpose of disowning them, not because my own feelings about who works with who have changed... :-P ), but if you talk to the rest of the fandom S/T is *MUCH* more warmly regarded. Especially when compared with S/W. Even about 75% of the Sheppard/McKay fans I know will say that IF there has to be a canon het relationship for Shep on the show, they'd MUCH rather see it be with Teyla.

A big part of this is probably because Elizabeth Weir is unilaterally the most hated character in the fandom. This is dismaying to me because I adore her, but it's the reality. She can do no right in the eyes of most of the slashers, and many gen fans as well. I don't know how most S/T fans feel about her because the only ones I tend to associate with are those like you who I know *do* like her, but it sometimes seems to me like the only fans who do like her are the S/W and McWeir fans fans, along with certain subsets of W/R or W/Z fans who *aren't* just 'shipping them together to get her away from John and Rodney.

But yeah...I guess my point is that while Sheppard/Teyla *fans* may technically still be a minority (hence why the inclusion in the Isis awards this year), among the 'ship neutral and/or slash fans, it's more popular by far if only by virtue of being considered the less offensive pairing.

It's also a minority--if it is even still a minority, there's been so much growth just since Isis ended I honestly don't know anymore--that is rapidly losing that distinction. I'm pretty much 100% sure that by the end of Atlantis' run, it will be the majority 'ship. Sam/Daniel had a much stronger presence during S3 of SG-1 from what I've been told, but now we're a very small subset of the fandom with the support of only one person involved with the show and it's neither Amanda nor Michael. Just like NEITHER Joe nor Torri "gets" why people 'ship S/W.

[tielan]

there are times I'm tempted to switch sides just for the purpose of disowning them, not because my own feelings about who works with who have changed... :-P

Oh God, yes. Been there, thought that on the J/T side of the fandom from time to time. Good to know that fan-twits aren't that different, no matter what pairing they prefer.

if you talk to the rest of the fandom S/T is *MUCH* more warmly regarded

That's interesting: I've actually found it's quite the opposite. Most of the non-S/W fen on my f-list and around about seem to prefer including Elizabeth in their stories to Teyla. It's a kind of "Don't make me include Teyla! I'll write anyone except her!" attitude.

She can do no right in the eyes of most of the slashers, and many gen fans as well.

I'm wondering if both Teyla and Elizabeth get short shift from the slashers and what I call 'smarm' genfen (basically, they like male-male friendship and focus on that without always going into slash, although the 'friendship' usually has a pre-slash angle to it) - because I would have said that Elizabeth was more acceptable a character to the fandom than Teyla.

Granted, there seem to be a lot of people who've taken issues with Elizabeth's decisions in the last season, but they're not against the character, per se, while I find Teyla tended to get written off a lot in fic.

I still disagree that John/Teyla is anywhere near the popularity of Shep/Weir. There's more of it in the last season, but it's still miniscule compared with the fanfic, fanart, and fansites that support Shep/Weir. In another couple of seasons, if the show keeps going they way they have, then maybe it might be the majority ship someday.

Still, thanks for your thoughts - it's interesting to hear a perspective from 'the other side'.

[astropoet.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think you're wrong about that. If you're hanging out mostly with Sheppard/Weir 'shippers, then yes, you're going to get a lot of that reaction from the more immature fans (and we do seem to have an uncommon lot of them over in S/W-dom, so many that there are times I'm tempted to switch sides just for the purpose of disowning them, not because my own feelings about who works with who have changed... :-P ),

I got slightly annoyed at this comment and then I remembered... that I'd stopped shipping S/W a while back and that most of the S/W shippers on my flist were actually quite mature and that I hadn't been on the LJ community for a while so perhaps there were now more than the fair share of ship doofuses. I know that some of my flist complain about them too. I know that some on my flist aren't perfect too.

The Atlantis ship fandom (S/W and S/T) has put me off ever entering in any fandom again, but I keep getting stuck in this one. Oh well, I might throw it off one day, but at the moment it's quite interesting to read everyone's point of view.

[cpt-ritter.livejournal.com]

I find myself in agreement with ALOT of what you said. We're not popular, but we're all drawn to it. Way to put it all down on paper... errr.... type.

[astropoet.livejournal.com]

Good essay and very interesting and it's good to hear why you like the pairing. I love your view about Teyla being not being snarky and lippy. I'm not sold on the ship myself, I can see what Sheppard would see in Teyla, I can't see why she would be interested in him (he's flabby next to her!). I used to ship S/W but I don't now, that makes me grind my teeth if I think I see any shippyness there so it's not that. I wouldn't spit if it came on screen but I wouldn't exactly run round in a squeeful manner either. And I have this sneaky love for a Teyla/McKay ship, just because she's so wonderfully composed and he's such a wuss but hey more scenes between them would be just fine.

I've said this on GW and I don't understand the "bastard child" ship reference at all, because for all intents and purposes S/T is the canon ship and you should just celebrate that. If anyone else has a problem then meh to them.

[tielan]

I can't see why she would be interested in him

*wryly* Only non-flabby people are allowed to have people interested in them? I must have missed that memo.

As I noted in the essay, Teyla thinks of John as a friend, at the least. Friendship can turn to love, and onlookers (and sometimes participants) don't always know why.

The 'bastard child' reference is more to the attitude of the fandom regarding the pairing.

A lot of people I've encountered are not just 'meh' about it - they declare it would never happen, say that there is no interest on either side, or threaten to leave the show if it happens. There's a difference between "it's not a pairing I follow" and "so, do you like them for anything other than the hawtness?"

And the second is rather more common than most people imagine.

[astropoet.livejournal.com]

*wryly* Only non-flabby people are allowed to have people interested in them? I must have missed that memo.

Sorry I was just being my slightly irreverent self. Being flabbyish myself of course folk should be interested in me. *whistles*

As I noted in the essay, Teyla thinks of John as a friend, at the least. Friendship can turn to love, and onlookers (and sometimes participants) don't always know why.

Here's mostly why I don't like Sheppard. Is he capable of being her friend? Is he capable of being with any woman without being mesmerised by her breasts? I'm sorry I just didn't see any depth to him in the second season with regard to women and I think Teyla would want more than a wee boy that can't keep his eyes in his head.

But I do love the idea of them being friends, in a kind of profound spiritual way - I'd love to see that being developed on the show.

A lot of people I've encountered are not just 'meh' about it - they declare it would never happen, say that there is no interest on either side, or threaten to leave the show if it happens. There's a difference between "it's not a pairing I follow" and "so, do you like them for anything other than the hawtness?"

And the second is rather more common than most people imagine.

Does that matter though? What other folks think is such a subjective thing. They can think and say what they want about a ship pairing (as long as it doesn't get personal about actors and other shippers). Most of my flist love the new Dr Who and I hate it with the power of a thousand suns. A lot of others ship other couples I'm not meh about but actively dislike. If I started culling the list based on that I'd have no-one left to talk to.

Besides what's wrong with liking a pairing because of the "hawtness" anyway?

[tielan]

I think we're going to disagree on the character of Sheppard no matter what I say. I don't think that he's been given a lot of depth on the show, but in all honesty nothing on Atlantis is given much depth.

There are many things I dislike (beliefs, ways of life, etc) but that doesn't stop me from being friends who think/practise them as long as they don't make it all about that.

I brought up the anti-Shep/Teyla attitude at the start of the essay as an example of what people say or believe about the pairing, in order to lead the reader into what I say and believe about the pairing.

Besides what's wrong with liking a pairing because of the "hawtness" anyway?

I can't say for others but I tend to like pairings because the characters as depicted are good matches for each other, because they have common outlooks or common interests, or I can see how they'd mesh in personality, or relate to each other. Whether they are pretty people and look good together isn't usually the decider in my estimation of people or couples - either fictional or real-life.

[astropoet.livejournal.com]

I think we're going to disagree on the character of Sheppard no matter what I say. I don't think that he's been given a lot of depth on the show, but in all honesty nothing on Atlantis is given much depth.

I wasn't trying to fight over it or persaude you otherwise! And I agree with you about the general lack of depth. I think that's because the show is plot driven as a rule and maybe the PTB have got that right! Or not who knows?

Sorry my last comment sounded like a lecture and I didn't mean it to be!

[gothica-lily.livejournal.com]

Thank you for putting into words exactly what I see in this ship! And for all the fic recommendations. I've just got into this ship and I've been looking for some good reads!

[tielan]

You're welcome! And welcome to the pairing, too. It's nice to see new faces about. *g*

[maxbo.livejournal.com]

This manifesto explains why you have such an excellent grasp on Teyla and John's characters. If I had my way, this would be required reading for any writer who planned to write a Teyla/John fanfic because you give an accurate, unflinching description of the characters that we've seen on scene, instead of the romanticized versions that some fic writers wish them to be.

I love reading fic about this ship, but only when the writers actually write for the characters - warts and all.

[lucius-admirer.livejournal.com]

I adore Teyla. I actually don't get why so many people hate her (though I think Elizabeth is even more hated). She's a very independent, young and beautiful woman who knows what she wants. And she's not a Shep fangirl like Elizabeth *rolleyes* I don't think the Sheyla ship is that unpopular, rather most people haven't noticed it yet, because it's a very subtle ship, not as blunt as ShWeir in S2.

Your manifesto is well written, you have a great inside on the characters. As a McWeir shipper (it's the Ron/Hermione ship of Atlantis in my opinion^^) and a McShep slasher, I do like Sheyla. It's a cute ship. I think if a het ship should sail then it's Sheyla (after the destroying of McWeir in season two...).

[tielan]

I'll admit, Teyla is my favourite character in Atlantis, but Elizabeth is wonderful, too. Any issues I have with Elizabeth are more to do with the fans than the character.

Thanks for your comment!

I was a McKay/Weir shipper through S1, but now I can only manage friendship between them.

Hm. I should update this with the details from S3, especially since it seems they're drawing John/Teyla out of the closet this season.

[lucius-admirer.livejournal.com]

Teyla kicks ass. I think she's a good role model.

ooh yes, update it with s3 moments. I heard some things about episode four... :)


I was a McKay/Weir shipper through S1, but now I can only manage friendship between them.

would be nice if we get to see some friendshippy scenes between them, there wasn't much in S2 :( so mckayweir would get some new fics ^^;