Airsick - Cloud/Yuffie (Final Fantasy VII)

[archica.livejournal.com]

Title: Airsick
Author: archica
Fandom: Final Fantasy VII
Pairing: Cloud/Yuffie
Spoilers: All of Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children

Introduction:

Cloud and Yuffie may seem like a very unlikely pairing. Depending on how you play the game, they could have almost zero interaction. In fact, they could not even meet at all. But players who explored the possibility of Yuffie as Cloud's love interest found something fascinating. Something different. And they also found the first Final Fantasy kiss of the 3D era.

Cloud:



Although his primary interest in the beginning is his own profit and survival, it is the people who gather around Cloud who bring out his nicer, kinder side. Through caring about them, he begins to care about the world they all live in, and eventually strives to save it. He's a hard worker who never gives up. He has some identity issues, but then, what Final Fantasy hero doesn't? XD

Yuffie:



Yuffie acts selfish, obnoxious, and immature. But those are only surface traits. Beneath the bubbly exterior is a young girl who cares deeply about those around her, even if she doesn't always show it in the most blatant ways. She's always working to prove herself to others, prove how strong, fast, or clever she is. But Yuffie has a certain maturity to her that only peeks out occasionally. She has to be pretty smart to leave Wutai and strike out on her own to restore her village, relying on her own capabilities. Oh yeah, this chick is tough.

Evidence:

Cloud and Yuffie meet when Cloud & co. litterally run into Yuffie in the forest. She initially attacks the group and steals/tries to steal all their materia. By the player making the right moves, Yuffie joins the party.

Depending on how often you keep Yuffie in your party, she gets quite a bit of amusing dialogue. Despite her quirks, she and Cloud seem to get along fairly well. At one point, when Yuffie rips the party off and heads back to Wutai, Cloud and co. track her down. While upset with her, they end up forgiving her and letting her re-join them. I think it's rather interesting that Cloud would allow her back into the party after something like that.

On the airship, you can get quite a few cute scenes between Cloud and Yuffie by seeking out Yuffie each time you go back onto the ship. She'll usually say something funny to him or complain about being airsick. Adorably, Cloud tries to teach her some bizarre exercises that will help her airsickness. This is perhaps the cutest moment between them.

But perhaps the most interesting aspect of their relationship in FF7 is that, if you get Yuffie for the date sequence, she will actually kiss Cloud, thus making her the only female character to EVER (yes, EVER, which means including Advent Children) kiss Cloud. And from the screenshots, it looks like a mouth kiss.



In Advent Children, they don't have a whole lot of interaction with each other, but there are some amusing little hints. First of all, Cloud had a box of materia with him in the church where he was staying. When Yuffie comes in later, she immediately asks "Where's my materia?" It's not a huge leap to assume that the materia Cloud had was her's. So what was he doing with it? Isn't it possible that she had visited him at the church and left her materia? Isn't it even possible that she may have stayed with him for a while?

Then, in the "Reminscence of FFVII" feature on the DVD (the one that serves as a refresher of the game), we see little clips here and there of Cloud traveling. Yuffie keeps calling him, even calls other members of their little group (like Vincent and even Cid) in an attempt to get ahold of him. When Cloud finally arrives, he has a package waiting on him from Yuffie. He immediately tears it open, only to find a "Closed for Business" sign (everyone wanted him to take a vacation, and apparently Yuffie cared enough about him to put a lot of work into this little stunt).

I also must point out that even though Cloud and Tifa were living together in AC, he didn't spend much time at home and even camped out in the church a lot. Could it be that he wasn't happy at home? Also, I find it odd that we never got to see a Cloud/Tifa kiss. Wasn't this Square's big chance to cement the status of their relationship? And yet there is nothing. After all that time between the game and AC, you'd think they would have officially gotten together by now, right? But here is Yuffie, who was more than likely visiting Cloud at the time and possibly spent some time with him. Alone. In an abandoned church. It's not a big stretch of the imagination to think that maybe, just maybe, Cloud was turning to Yuffie because things were not going well with Tifa.

Yes, I know this evidence is not plentiful, nor is it very deep or convincing. But it's enough for fans of the pairing to keep hope alive. No one is trying to prove that Cloud and Yuffie are in love in canon. But I think there's enough evidence to prove that it's a possibility.

Their Relationship:

The canon relationship between Cloud and Yuffie can be seen differently, depending on the choices you made throughout the game. If you get the Yuffie date sequence, I think it's highly likely that something romantic is going on between them. Perhaps it was a fling. Perhaps they hooked up a few times between the game and AC. But the fact remains that Yuffie kissed Cloud, and he made no attempt to stop her or pull away. If the makers of the game didn't want Cloud/Yuffie to be a possibility, they wouldn't have allowed that scene to occur.

I think Cloud cares a lot about Yuffie, regardless of the date. It is possible that he see's her as a good friend. He tries to help her out when he can, and obviously has concern for her safety and well-being. Yuffie is very obviously attracted to Cloud (she kissed him!) and it's a very safe assumption that she developed a crush on him throughout the game. Being the spunky, bold girl she is, I'm sure she's made (another) move on Cloud at some point.

Cloud needs someone to supply some light-hearted adventure and fun in his life. Yuffie needs someone to be strong and stable for her. They're perfect for each other, and ONLY for each other. They compliment each other, complete each other, and each of them provides something to other that was missing in their lives.

Why Support Cloud/Yuffie?

The short answer is: it's different! Let's face it, the Cloud/Aeris and Cloud/Tifa fanfics have been done to death. While I have no particular problem with those pairings, I find them boring. By shipping Cloud/Yuffie, you find yourself in new territory. The fandom for this pairing is growing day by day, and so is the number of fanfics, fanart, doujinshi scans, and fansites devoted to it. Now is the perfect time to jump in!

But beyond that, it's a truly entertaining pairing. Cloud is stoic and (mostly) serious. Yuffie is wild and adventurous. If you can't see the sparks flying already, you need to take a closer look. They have chemistry, and the type of relationship that can be written or interpreted in a hundred different ways. So take a chance and try something new. You might just find a new OTP.

Brief Fandom Guide:

Airsick - My extensive shrine to the pairing. You can find a large fanfic library here, as well as fanart, doujinshi scans, icons, and many other things. Also includes the fanlisting.

Ninja & Samurai - Another nice Cloud/Yuffie shrine. Has a large fanart gallery and lots of information.

The Cloud/Yuffie Yahoo Group - This Yahoo group has the biggest known collection of Cloud/Yuffie fanart (Japanese or otherwise). Be sure to check it out!

clouffielove - The Cloud/Yuffie Livejournal community.

Note: Most of the "evidence" from Advent Children was initially pointed out to me by itsutsuboshi.

Comments

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

First off, I must tell you while I feel that everyone has the right to support the pairing they like, there are some things you wrote that I don't agree with.

You said that that chest of materias in the church in AC probably belongs to Yuffie. She just left it there after visiting Cloud. I don't think so. I think what she meant when she exclaimed 'where's my materia' is just a playful jab. Throughout the game, she's always expressed an interest in everyone's materia. She even asked Cloud to sign a contract (on the airship) to give her all the materia after the final battle, which Cloud of course declined. Even so, Yuffie probably still refers to everyone's materia as hers.

Next, you said that one possible reason why Cloud always stayed away from home in AC is because he's not happy with Tifa. I think it's very safe to say (with all the hints given in the movie, especially the photos), that Cloud loved living with Tifa and the kids. But after he got inflicted with geostigma, a fatal diesease, he just retreated into himself. Like Tifa said, Cloud doesn't have the will to fight anymore. So chances are, Cloud just wanted a quiet place to live out the rest of his remaining life.

You also said that if Cloud liked Tifa, they should have gotten together already, in the two years between the game and AC. I don't think using time is a good measure of when a couple will actually get together. There is no should when it comes to when to fall in love.

Remember that Cloud has been through a lot of things in his life, so it is likely that he will take a much longer time to fully express his feelings.

Lastly, I think one very huge reason why Cloud never got together with Tifa or Aeris even to the very end of the movie is commercial purposes. By leaving this ambiguous, Squaresoft wouldn't have to deal with angry fans of the other pairing, and also, this would spawn a lot more speculation and interest in the series.

Of course, this doesn't mean that I'm telling you that Cloud/Yuffie doesn't work. They could, just like Cloud/Tifa and Cloud/Aeris. Hope you won't take any offense. ^^

[archica.livejournal.com]

This is why I made absolute sure to use words like "might", "maybe", "could be", and "a possible reason". I wanted to point out that I'm not saying any of those theories about Cloud/Tifa are anything more than just that: personal theories. Everyone has their own way of interpreting a scene. This was mine. :D My only point is that, the fact that Square left so much to interpretation in the first places speaks enough for itself. I agree that commercial reasons were a part of it, but even so, it's telling fans that it's okay to look into other possibilities.

I certainly have no problem with Tifa (I like her a lot!), I just prefer her in other pairings. Like Rufus/Tifa.

No offense taken. We all have our opinions. :D

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

I understand what you mean, but the reason you tried to justify the pairing is to convince others, isn't it? That's why I tried to tell you what I thought were flawed in your justification. By knowing what others may or may not accept as a valid point, you can then justify a pairing better, no?

I'm glad you're not offended. ^^ Sometimes people just don't take well to messages like that.

[archica.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry. I misunderstood your comment. I didn't know you were attacking my "justification". I thought you were simply pointing out the way you viewed those scenes.

Would my manifesto have been more convincing if I had simply ignored the moments I personally viewed to lean toward Cloud/Yuffie in AC? Should I have left them out to avoid possibly offending a Cloud/Tifa fan? Your problem with my manifesto seems to be with the AC section. Maybe you think I completely warped AC to fit the Cloud/Yuffie pairing? Maybe I did. But as itsutsuboshi pointed out, fans of pairings like this one have to basically grasp at straws.

But at least Cloud/Yuffie had a kiss. I've seen way too many pairings who have nothing. And if I see something in AC and personally think "Hmm, that leans toward Cloud/Yuffie!" I'm certainly going to include it in a manifesto.

What seems "illogical" to you seems extremely logical to me. So apparently, not everyone is going to think the same way you do.

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

Again, please do not put words into my mouth. I never attacked you or your justification. I merely pointed out what I thought could be improved on. If you're not willing to accept my comments, so be it.

I never said you should ignore moments you viewed to lean towards Cloud/Yuffie in AC. What I said was to at least present it in a manner that was more logical and sound.

And yes, not everyone is going to think the same way as I do. But that also means not everyone is going to think the same way as you do.

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

Not looking for an argument here, but would it really have been up to your standards if Archica had simply stuck with FF7 OGC?

I dont think adding things from AC, Reminiscence, and OTWTAS should make this less of a ship manifesto. o_O If anything, it shows that the possibility of the pairing outlives OGC, even if the Compilation has to expand on a game that had several different actual instances of canon (ie Cloud's differing relationships with Aeris, Tifa, Yuffie, Barret, and the others).

I'm sure there would be a way to word everything Archica said in a logical point by point manner, going one by one and disputing every single argument that comes against the interpretations and giving what support there is to them, but that's not what a ship manifesto is about. You start getting into having to defend every little thing, and that's not fun. (Not to mention it would WAY exceed the word limit.) What's fun is what makes a pairing lovable. What sells is what makes a pairing lovable.

Just because her "argument" for Cloud/Yuffie doesnt "convince" you doesnt make it invalid. Her manifesto does what it was meant to do: proclaim the love of a pairing and why people ship it, and share the love and excitement and fangirling that drive the fans of the ship.

I mean, if you wrote a Cloud/Sephiroth manifesto by your standards, it would be about two sentences long. o_O

If you'd like though, you're more than welcome to show us how a Cloud/Yuffie manifesto should be written.

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

But doesn't writing a justification for pairing mean you are prepared to defend your pairing to the very end?

I do agree, however, agree that yes, making pairings lovable is the fun part about supporting them. But that doesn't mean that you don't have to defend your pairing just because "it's not fun".

I never said anything about the justification being invalid just because I'm not convinced. What I meant was that if you're going to justify a pairing, you'd want to try and convince as many people as possible, and the way to go about doing that would be to defend your pairing whenever people point out things they think do not support your pairing.

And no, I wouldn't write a manifesto for Cloud/Seph. I don't feel the need to convince others why I like this pairing (or any other pairings, for that matter). But if you asked me why I support the pairing, I would simply say: Because I just do.

And no, I wouldn't want to write a Cloud/Yuffie manifesto either, simply because I'm not interested and I don't support the pairing like you and your friend apparently do.

In the end, what I hope you'll understand is that I never, ever meant to demean your favoured pairing. I never implied, overt or otherwise, that I'm better than you. Therefore, there is no 'how something should be written'.

Anyway, this will be the very last message I leave on this thread. It is obvious that we see things differently, and there is no point in continuing this discussion because we'd never agree.

[archica.livejournal.com]

Okay, I don't understand what gives you the impression that I'm not prepared to defend my pairing "to the very end". Before now, I've honestly never ran into a single person to whom I've had to defend the pairing. What am I supposed to be defending against in the manifesto? I figured I'd just put my manifesto up and then defend my points whenever they were called into question. Just like I'm doing now.

You said: What I meant was that if you're going to justify a pairing, you'd want to try and convince as many people as possible, and the way to go about doing that would be to defend your pairing whenever people point out things they think do not support your pairing.

How am I supposed to do that up there in the manifesto before anyone points out anything that does not support the pairing? I simply don't understand how I can argue something before anything has been said.

You keep saying that you never meant to demean Cloud/Yuffie. And I believe you. But what you're saying is that you're demeaning my writing of the manifesto. Which to me is much more offensive. I don't know how much more detailed I can write out what very little evidence there is, at least without going into super long theories about why Cloud/Tifa is not canon and is based on interpretation (just like a million other pairings, generally accepted as canon or otherwise). But would that really be more convincing? Or just plain offensive to Cloud/Tifa shippers?

Obviously, you just don't like my writing style because, according to you, I don't present my miniscule, subtext evidence in a logical and detailed enough manner. And to that, I can only say, I worked with what I had.

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

*nods* But see, that's what we're doing here, defending our pairing. But I would hope people dont set out to write a ship manifesto to have every little piece of evidence put on trial, but rather to present a pairing, why it works, what canon and fanon you can find supporting it, and why you love it.

If there's no "how something should be written", then what was your problem with Archica's manifesto? That's what I'm not getting. You flat out call her statements illogical when everything is subject to interpretation, like you've also said.

I just dont get why you would comment at all, catch me?

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

And on a side note, in response to what Archica said, having something achieve wild popularity doesnt make it the most logical conclusion or the pairing a success. In our fandom, Vincent/Yuffie is the most popular pairing, for crying out loud. Logic me that.

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

C'mo~n.

Pairings like these thrive on subtext. Not non-existant stuff, just really deep read subtext.

I personally find the theory that Cloud was shacking up with Yuffie in the church during OMG AERIS GUILT trippy phase to be SOOO intriguing, because obviously it's not the case but if it were, there's evidence to support it in AC.

It's like when Tidus comes back from his makeout sesh with Yuna in Macalania and cant even look Rikku in the eye. It's an interpretation thing.

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

If you wanted to justify a pairing (or anything, for that matter), you lay out evidence. And if there is no hard, sound evidence, you interpret deeper. I agree with that.

However, if you're going to try to interpret something, your interpretation should at least sound logical and rational, even if it may not necessary be correct. In the end, what you're trying to do is convince others, and that's why you justify what you support.

I was just pointing out what I thought was kinda illogical. If your arguments are not sound, not logical, it's not going to be convincing. And that would just make your justification sound really off. Why would you want that?

No offense meant, but this is just my two cents on justifying a pairing you like. I personally don't mind the Cloud/Yuffie pairing, if you're wondering, so this isn't meant to debase the pairing.

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

Some pairings leave more to interpretation than others.

For fans of pairings that lack much canon evidence, it's the little looks and passing comments that just make your heart skip a beat because "...what if he really means...!"

Archica laid out what evidence there is, but I dont think it goes against her credit to lay out what subtext can be picked up as well. After all, if you're already a fan of "more canon" pairing, if what it takes to sway you is hard cold facts, you're not going to get more for Cloud/Yuffie than Cloud/Aeris or Cloud/Tifa. You're just not. Besides the kiss. Ship manifestos are to proclaim the love of a pairing to the world and why they're loved, and hope that someone else might see it and be interested. Even if a pairing was so far out there that the characters had never met, someone could (and I'm 99% sure has) do a ship manifesto, and maybe someone would go "oooh, they really would work so great together, this is really interesting!" And others will scoff and say "I'm not sold, there's zero concrete evidence." Some pairings sell only on the merit of the characters looking good together, but people still sell it.

So having "illogical" interpretations of canon events as a fan? At that point, it's less about convincing something is OMG!CANON or OMG!100%TRUE and more about "This could mean..." and going starry eyed as a fan.

Might not sway a jury but certainly can a fan. *shrugs*

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

On the contrary, I'm not a canon-pairing fan. I don't need to be convinced by cold, hard facts. What I (and others who are not yet into the pairing but may have the potential to be) need in order to be convinced is a logical-sounding argument/justification.

If you base a pairing merely on interpretation, then it's probably not going to be very strong. Why? Because as a fan of a certain pairing, you'd be biased towards the pairing and that would cause you to pick up every little thing and interpret it in the way that aids your justification.

I just think to justify something, you need to be very objective.

That said, I want to stress again: I do not disregard the argument brought forth for the Cloud/Yuffie pairing, nor do I mean to debase them as a couple. Personally, some of the pairing I support do not even interact a whole lot, so I always believe in minute possibilites. *shrugs*

[archica.livejournal.com]

There are thousands of pairings that are based merely on interpretation. Are you saying every single one of those pairings are weak?

And I'm fairly certain that I'm not the first person to write a manifesto and be biased toward my pairing of choice.

Cloud/Yuffie is based on a mixture of interpretation (AC) and hard evidence (the kiss). I wanted to present both sides in the manifesto.

[fantasia0829.livejournal.com]

Please do not put words in my mouth. Like I mentioned earlier, some of the pairings I support do not even interact a lot, and the reason why I support them is simple: I just like them. I never said anything about pairings based on only interpretation are weak.

And of course you're not the first person to be biased towards your favoured pairing. Everybody does that, me included. But if you're going to try writing a justification for your favoured pairing, it's always better to be objective (a.k.a. not biased) for a stronger-sounding argument.

[archica.livejournal.com]

If you base a pairing merely on interpretation, then it's probably not going to be very strong.

And then:

I never said anything about pairings based on only interpretation are weak.

Which is it?

Regardless, I think you and I just have different view points on what ship manifestos are all about. You seem to think they are meant to convince the world that MY pairing is the RIGHT pairing. I think they're about explaining WHY I like this pairing and why it works for me personally, and in that way explain what's good and fun about the pairing.

[viltgance.livejournal.com]

You have my love. XD

[archica.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :D

[sunsetsred.livejournal.com]

YOU DID IT YOU FINALLY DID IT

ZOMG ♥

[archica.livejournal.com]

Yeeep. :DDDDD

[sakuravalentine.livejournal.com]

I've always liked this pairing, it's refreshing when compared to the whole Cloud/Tifa/Aeris never-ending war. It's like, why not just take Yuffie and run far far away where the fangirls n' fanboys can't find you, Cloud? XDDD I also never cared much for canon or cold hard evidence, I mean, I'm a fan of things like Tifa/Vincent and Tifa/Reno for christ sake. XD Cute pairings, like this one, don't need to be canon. They're just that cute. ♥

[archica.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I agree completely. I also like Rufus/Tifa, and there's pretty much no evidence for it. But I just think it would work, somehow. Some pairings just speak to you.

[crystalcattail.livejournal.com]

I never thought about this pairing before, but now I'm really curious! I completely forgot about Cloud and his weird airsickness cures.

[archica.livejournal.com]

Glad I could spark your interest! And yeah, the airsickness thing was adorable. I think he really just wanted to see Yuffie do those crazy squatting motions. XD

Hey, loved the manifesto.

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

I've been a Cloud/Yuffie fan for a while, and you covered exactly why I like this pairing and why I want to see more of it. I'm completely in agreement with the idea that a fic about things not going well with Tifa and Cloud turning to Yuffie could be written very well without breaking canon, as well. ^_^

It was really good. ^_^

[choco-fuxx.livejournal.com]

I-I... wow...

You can't be serious.

*laugh my fuck up*

[archica.livejournal.com]

Of course I notice this comment over a year later. XD

But yes, I'm serious. Just as serious as the Rufus/Yuffie and Vincent/Cid shippers.

[psychedelic-aya.livejournal.com]

Nice essay, and I like most of your points. I've always considered CloudxYuffie as a tasty side pairing in the FFVII universe, and this little piece of yours reminded me just why they're so impeccably cute together.

I, however, have some qualms about how you presented your points considering (1) why Cloud had materia in the church, (2) why CloudxTifa wasn't happening and (3) how Cloud might be turning to Yuffie because things weren't going well with Tifa.


(1) I think Yuffie's "Where's my materia?" line in Advent Children was just a good poke at her character--it was her scene of entrance, after all, and I think that the director set for her to say that line to keep the fans entertained with a small thought of "Oh look, its Yuffie, and she's still that same airsick materia-greedy theif. Aha." (Something like that.)

I also don't think that Yuffie could've been staying with Cloud in the church. Visiting, yes; maybe staying a night or two, yes; but for a long period of time? I doubt it. The church, in a sense, is Cloud's personal space--a guilt-ridden space, if I may say, that reminds him of Aeris (in entirety) and with it, her end--her death. Somehow, I think Cloud's stay in the church is, of course, Aeris-related, and I think even the ever nosy Yuffie would know not to tread in the dangerous territory of Cloud's self-wangst in that field. Maybe she'd come and try to cheer him up, but she'd never stay for long. Judging from Advent Children, Cloud still had a lot of guilt with him, so we know no one has been able to change it so far.

(2) and (3) In my opinion, the reason CloudxTifa had yet to happen wasn't because of Yuffie; but rather it was because Cloud wasn't ready to commit in a relationship at all after everything that happened in FFVII. Of course, I have my post-FFVII CloudxAeris-wangst speculations (yes, I do believe that Cloud was--is--hung up over Aeris, even until Advent Children), but let's not get into that.

(4) And oh!

*They're perfect for each other, and ONLY for each other.
I don't think you should seal the pairing with the word ONLY. Although I do get how you're trying to say that CloudxYuffie compliment each other well (as compared to any other character they could be paired up with), doing this makes it feel somehow that you're sealing CloudxYuffie as the one true canon, when you yourself admitted that there are things might be made of speculation.

Of course, it could be just me. Just a little comment.

In any case, good essay, I enjoyed reading it! Keep it up.

[archica.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reading.

I tried to keep reminding everyone that these theories were just that: theories. They're just my own personal little ideas that I felt could lean toward CloudxYuffie if looked at in a certain way. I'm certainly not claiming that Cloud absolutely fell for Yuffie because things were not working out with Tifa. I only wanted to point out that it was possible that Cloud had, at some point, turned to Yuffie (even if it was just a one-night fit of angst-ridden passion) as a result of him pulling away from Tifa.

As for the materia thing, I still don't see why it's so impossible for the materia to actually belong to her. She's a materia-thief, as you pointed out. Isn't it likely that she has a nice collection of materia by now? And how did she know Cloud had a collection of materia anyway (because Tifa actually seemed rather surprised to see it in the church, so to me it seemed like she didn't know he had it)? The fact that she knew he had the materia proves that she had either been there to see it, or that it actually was hers (and she had left it there or, more likely, let him keep it/borrow it). Either theory supports the idea that she had been to see him at the church.

All I was trying to do was point out possibilities, seeing as how the couple has very little concrete evidence. To me, it's a rather strong possibility that she visited him at the church, because of the materia issue. As a fan of the pairing grasping at straws to provide ways for them to hook up, I took this theory and ran with it.

Oh, and me saying they're perfect for each other and only for each other is clearly my personal opinion as a devoted fan of the pairing. I have nothing against other Cloud pairings, but in my own opinion, he's perfect for Yuffie (and vice-versa). :D

[cassandrablue.livejournal.com]

I've always been a fan of the Cloud/Tifa/Aeris triangle myself, and while Cloti will always be one of my faves, it's refreshing to see a pairing that isn't completly raped by fans. Thanks for writing this manifesto. I'm always happy to see the other side of debates, if ya know what I mean. :)