[identity profile] emeraldharpy.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] ship_manifesto
Title: Ginger Newts and Sherbet Lemons
Author: [livejournal.com profile] emeraldharpy
Spoilers: through Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Disclaimer: The following are my opinions and insights only, and do not necessarily reflect those of the majority of AD/MM shippers.


Initially, I was rather surprised not to see the Albus/Minerva ship here, since it has been listed as a “common” ship on some of the more popular HP websites. However, I have since learned that while the AD/MM vessel has been sailing for some time, it is a mere yacht compared to some of the other cruise ships out there in the HP Fandom ocean. This essay is my attempt to explain why we venture forth into such crowded waters, and to invite any interested parties to come aboard.

Albus Dumbledore
At first glance, Professor Albus Dumbledore, Headmaster of the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, is your basic wise, old, twinkly grandfather type. He is kindly, eccentric, has a penchant for sweets, refers to himself as a “barmy old codger”, comes complete with long silvery-white hair and beard, and can always be relied upon to dispense sage advice to the hero. However, it soon becomes obvious that he is considerably more than he appears. Widely considered to be the greatest wizard of the age, he has already defeated one great dark wizard, and is now the only wizard whom Voldemort, the arch villain of the series, fears. Since the political leader of the Wizarding world, Minister of Magic Cornelius Fudge, is grossly incompetent at best and dangerously misguided at worst, the task of watching for Voldemort’s return, and organizing the resistance when that return comes, falls to Professor Dumbledore. To protect Wizard and Muggle alike, he must operate in secret, until he is forced to openly defy the Ministry. Most of the time he seems omniscient, but there are moments when he has appeared curiously uninformed and, in the fifth book, as fallible and human as the rest of us. Mentor, rebel, sage, genius - there is much we still do not know about Albus Dumbledore. He remains a fascinating mystery.

Minerva McGonagall
At first glance, Professor Minerva McGonagall, Deputy Headmistress and Professor of Transfiguration at Hogwarts, is your basic stiff, uptight, spinster type. She is stern, bespectacled, a stickler for the rules, wears her hair in a tight bun, and can always be relied upon to be absolutely fair – which isn’t always good news for the hero. However, it soon becomes obvious that she too is considerably more than she appears. Well-known as an extremely powerful witch, she is one of only seven registered animagi (witches or wizards who can become an animal at will) in the twentieth century. She is a member, and most likely second in command, of the Order of the Phoenix, Albus Dumbledore’s underground resistance group. She has a softer side as well. Her passion for Quidditch, the Wizarding world’s sport, is one of the few things that can cause her to lose control or even bend (slightly) the rules. Another thing that causes her to lose control is threats to her friends; in fact she nearly gets herself killed defending one such comrade. There are several moments in the series when she gets teary-eyed, and the author herself has referred to the character as “…an old softy.” She, like Dumbledore, is also a rebel when circumstances dictate, as evidenced in the many scenes of humorous passive resistance in the fifth book. Indeed, the fifth book brought out many facets of her character, and it will be very interesting to see what the author has in store for Minerva McGonagall.

Albus/Minerva
There are many scenes in the series that point to a very close relationship between these two professors. The way they speak to each other in the very first chapter of book one, for example, indicates that they are close longtime friends, and it’s very easy to read a bit of flirtation between the lines. Then there is the “hot chocolate inconsistency” many shippers point to, in which Albus and Minerva give the school nurse a slightly confusing account of how they ended up carrying a petrified student to the Infirmary late one evening, wearing only their nightclothes. Minerva is, I believe, the only person who calls Albus by his first name. Throughout the series, she demonstrates deep loyalty to and admiration for him, telling him he’s “too noble” too use dark magic, for example, or insisting that he did not make a mistake enchanting the Goblet of Fire. Her loyalty also places her in open defiance of the Ministry in book five. He, for his part, trusts her implicitly, as evidenced by the autonomy with which she generally operates and, in particular, the scene in his office in book 5, when he is forced to flee.

Now, I can hear some of you saying, “But they’re so old!” or “Isn’t he, like, eighty years older than she is?” While J. K. Rowling hasn’t elaborated upon age in the Wizarding world other than to say that witches and wizards have a much greater life expectancy than muggles, one can extrapolate, based upon the fact that Albus’ hair was only beginning to turn white when he was around one hundred, and that he can easily duel with Voldemort fifty years later, that magical ability seems to slow the ageing process considerably. From there it’s not too far a jump to figure that Minerva, at age seventy, would look the Muggle equivalent of around forty, while Albus would appear a Muggle seventy-something. But even if it turns out that magic merely extends the elder years, and they look as old as their Muggle equivalents, it doesn’t matter. The saying “Snow on the roof, fire in the furnace,” applies here regardless of appearance. Love and desire do not disappear once one passes the age of thirty, despite what Hollywood would have us believe.

Writing Albus/Minerva is not an easy task. Unlike Severus/Hermione, which lends itself quite easily to the Regency romance genre, from which fanfiction authors can draw inspiration, there are virtually no romances about older couples in bookstores or libraries. Some authors get around this problem by setting their stories fifty years before the series, writing a young, feisty Minerva and an older troubled-by-Grindelwald Albus, effectively shoe-horning the characters into the Regency romance mold. However, those who like to write or read stories that are canonically plausible feel that Minerva and Albus could not have been a couple until after the first chapter of the first book – there was just too much she didn’t know at that point. This means writing them as they are presented in the books – a middle-aged woman and an elderly man. There are no literary patterns to follow for a writer who chooses this route, yet the very best examples of fanfiction written with this pairing have bravely ventured into this new territory with beautiful results. These stories are about adults with many years of life experience behind them, complete with baggage, whose discovery of one another is all the more poignant because they know what’s at stake.

The Fandom
For reasons that I have yet to identify, the vast majority of Albus/Minerva shippers fall between the ages of fifteen and twenty-five, although there has been a recent influx of writers over thirty. Furthermore, it is my impression that many, though not all, of the more active and vocal shippers seem to be quite religious. While this makes for a polite, supportive, and cozy group of fans, for the most part it also makes for a certain narrowness of vision, a decidedly small sampling of erotic writing, and, with the very young writers, a higher-than-average number of grammar and spelling errors for the reader to wade through. There are, however, some very good Albus/Minerva stories, which I have listed below:

[livejournal.com profile] alchemine - Evening Post
[livejournal.com profile] angharad04, Lady Angharad on ff.net, and Angharad everywhere else - Subtle Communication, The Professors’ New Clothes, Traditional Socks, and Taking Up The Gage
Catwoman99 - Why is it Always Me?
[livejournal.com profile] dicere - After The Battle, Wild Lavendar
Ginger Newts - How Is That Possible?
[livejournal.com profile] jestana - Addiction
[livejournal.com profile] maexle - The Comedy of Errors (Note: This author is German, and while the complete version of this story is on her lj, it is the non beta read version. The link is to the beta read version, which most readers will find easier to read.)
[livejournal.com profile] mascaret - Unchain My Love, Bevy
Uber Grasshopper - A Tabby and her Kit (AU, but well done)

Live Journal groups
[livejournal.com profile] admmforgrownups
[livejournal.com profile] albusandminerva

Other Groups
Albus and Minerva Yahoo Group
Albus and Minerva Fanfiction, designed for works-in-progress. Has become a "praise and agree only" type of board.
HMS Frivolity and Felines forum on Fiction Alley
Minerva McGonagall/Albus Dumbledore thread on Fiction Alley

Website
HMS Infinite Incantatem - Many, many stories here.

Date: 2005-02-17 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poisonivory.livejournal.com
Very interesting and well-written, and actually made me quite intrigued by this ship. You might want to put the essay behind a cut, though. :D

Date: 2005-02-17 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shoorihoshi.livejournal.com
Frankly, your last paragraph about "the fandom" really, really pissed me off with it's sweeping generalizations. Who's to say that the narrowness of vision you've encountered is a result of the age of the writer? One of the best fanfics I have ever read in my LIFE was written by an eighteen year old girl. Who was raised in a "strictly religious" household. There's a world of implication in that last paragraph that just really bothers me, because it's all based on stereotypes.

Date: 2005-02-18 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uffishthought.livejournal.com
sorry to intrude, but I wanted to say that while I have read many excellent stories by young writers, so far I've found that most of the stories that deeply affected me or were especially well written have been by older authors. I think one of the key problems facing younger writers (especially when writing for a 'ship that involves much older and more experienced characters) is that they learn much of their characterization from *other* fiction's characterization. When someone is eighteen and just out of high school, they really haven't gone through anything equivalent to much of what they're writing about, and more importantly for romantic fiction usually haven't had any -or enough- of the deeply loving, deeply painful, or deeply dysfunctional relationships that are usually drawn upon to write convincing stories.

Mention age as a determining factor, though, in any fandom (at least that I've seen) and people get up in arms immediately.

Date: 2005-02-17 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goldy-dollar.livejournal.com
Oooh, I thought that was very fascinating. I've always thought there was something more going on between those two. There's something very simplistic about the pairing that makes it really quite beautiful. You *know* the two of them would make a fantastic pair. Thanks!

Date: 2005-02-17 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rosehiptea.livejournal.com
I enjoyed this. I've always thought Albus and Minerva made a great couple, and I have no problem with age or age differences, but I think I've only read one fanfic so far. I'll put this in my memories and check out your recommendations. Thanks very much!

Date: 2005-02-17 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maexle.livejournal.com
Dearie, I think your essay is fascinating and I'm absolutely agree with you.

Yet the link to my story seems broken. Here's one which should work:

http://lumos.sycophanthex.com/viewstory.php?sid=1444

Date: 2005-02-17 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
It's quite possible that in the WW, features like gray hair and wrinkles are considered *sexy* and it's the young people who are considered completely undesirable--I wrote a drabble once where Snape had a huge crush on Dumbledore, but of course couldn't approach such a sex god.

Date: 2005-02-18 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
THE (MAD) EYE OF THE BEHOLDER

Pallid, shuddering with horror, Snape slammed the door of the Senior Common Room.
“Would you believe it?” he asked his friend. “Harry-naffing-Potter just propositioned me!”

“Of course I’d believe it,” Remus said. “Hermione hit on me yesterday. Ron positively groped me the day before that.”

“They think I would do something so nauseatingly perverse. They’re….young! Unformed! All that unwrinkled skin and their own teeth. All right, Potter’s got glasses, but they’re not even bifocals.”

“Dumbledorrrrre….” They sighed in unison. As if he’d so much as look at them!
“Those crow’s feet of yours are coming along nicely,” Remus said comfortingly.

Date: 2005-03-02 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emerald-embers.livejournal.com
*grins*

You just made the evening of coursework-writing ahead of me seem actually enjoyable.

So cute, and funny ^^!
From: [identity profile] yeungmaisu.livejournal.com
While I've never read any stories featuring this particular ship, there's something about them together that I find very appealing.

Thank you so much for the introduction and please know that the next free day I have, I'll be definitely checking out these stories.

Date: 2005-02-18 05:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brightbear.livejournal.com
An intriguing essay. Never considered these two as a pairing before but I adore Minerva so I shall be checking out all your recs.

Date: 2005-02-18 06:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] majinbakahentai.livejournal.com
I have read a few fics in the past that had AD/MM as a side-ship but it would be interesting to read some centred on them.

There is something warming about romance between two elder characters and having come from a religeous background myself I suspect that might be one key as to why the sort of writers you mention may like them - after all, it is an ideal to have a relationship last a lifetime, right into old age.

Date: 2005-02-18 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] griseldalafey.livejournal.com
Great essay! I like your characterization of Albus and Minerva and what makes them plausible as a ship. :D

About your characterization of the fandom, I see your point. I've been a member of other fandom's as well, and the reason why I'm still an active member of the AD/MM community is because it's polite and supportive.
But you're right, the downside of that is that not everyone is always handling critic too well. On the other hand, I feel it's the other side of the same medal.
With an open community, with so many members of different ages, backgrounds, cultural upbring etc. it's very, very difficult to have the good of both.

I hope it's alright, but I've posted a link to this essay on the AD/MM yahoo-group.

Date: 2005-02-18 03:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluerosefairy.livejournal.com
Love the essay. AD/MM isn't my primary ship, but it's always lurked in the background. Your essay was very concise, well thought out, and straightforward. And I'll definitely be checking out some of those fic recs.

Great job!

Date: 2005-02-18 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynalexander.livejournal.com
Very nicely done. I like your character sketches of Albus and Minerva, though it does focus almost exclusively on their good points, more so for for Albus than Minerva. Of course, that's true of AD/MM shippers as well.

Like some other posters here, I'm not entirely certain that I agree with your generalizations about the fandom/shippers. Your age range seems mostly accurate, though you have to realize that the shippers are aging, like everyone else. The sixteen-year-olds who started liking AD/MM after the release on GoF are now in their twenties, for example.

I'm non-religious myself, so I feel put-out defending anyone else's religion; however, I don't think having a religious background makes anyone more or less likely to have adequate spelling or grammar.

Overall, that's a very nicely done essay.

Date: 2005-02-19 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynalexander.livejournal.com
I didn't see a reason to go into the characters' negative points.

I see your point, especially since AD/MM doesn't have a lot of dark!fic, but generally, characters negative traits, like Albus's tendency to manipulate people, help fuel fics from that genre. We really need more dark!fic. Sigh.

I got my age range figures from a fairly recent poll on the AD/MM Yahoo group

That poll has been on-going for almost a year and a half, I believe.

You're the first person who has read it as a religious crack

I'm sensitive that way.

I just wish I knew why we're perceived this way as a group. I'm pretty hardcore non-religious myself, so I find it confusing and not very complimentary. Feelings on the subject may vary, but that's my take.

Date: 2005-02-19 03:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aerynalexander.livejournal.com
Albus and Minerva Fanfiction proboard

Well, if this is because of something said at the proboard, then it doesn't have anything to do with me or any of the other shippers at Yahoo!, so I'm fine with it. Say what you want. I just don't like being lumped in with religious-types. Chafes a bit.

Thank you.


Sanctity of marriage? What an effing joke!

Date: 2005-02-19 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shadowycat.livejournal.com
A very interesting and well written essay. I know some of these authors and their works, but it's always nice to fine new ones. Thanks. :)

Date: 2005-02-19 02:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sprite6.livejournal.com
A lovely essay for a ship that needs more love. I also appreciate the recs - some I've read, but some are new, and new AD/MM stories are always welcome. :)

Date: 2005-02-19 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jennyanydots21.livejournal.com
Assassins and Lovers (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1358190/17/) has a ADMM thing as somewhat of a sidebar... I sometimes find EvieBlack a little repetitive (she has several similarly themed fics) but I loved this one. I would highly recommend it, just for the humour and the delightfully written Dumbledore. (And take it from me: I rarely manage to finish a 17-chapter fanfiction.)

Date: 2005-02-20 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angharad04.livejournal.com
Excellent essay! Thank you very much for recommending my stories. :) There is a marvelous story missing from your list, though. It is called "After the Battle" and it is by Dicere. I don't have the URL handy at the moment, but I believe it is on ff.net. Do give it a read - you'll be glad you did. :)

I feel I must tell you that you've caused a wee bit of a stir over at the AD/MM Yahoo group with your remarks about the religious makeup of the shippers. In my opinion, most of the trouble is with people who think "many" means "all", or who are religious but weren't raised strictly. Personally, I think your assessment was quite accurate, but others disagree.

Again, excellent essay, and thanks for including me in your list! :)

Date: 2005-02-20 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladygelfling.livejournal.com
First off, I'm Catwoman99 and thanks for recommending one of my fics (though it was never intended to be a serious work of writing!). I'm also a founding member of the AD/MM proboard, so thanks for the promotion there. I enjoyed your essay and I would like to commend you for bringing more attention to our wonderful ship. About your last paragraph, as far as the age matter goes, I agree that the majority are young, but in the past couple months I've seen more shippers over the age of thirty join in. I think the AD/MM has the broadest spectrum, agewise, in terms of supporters. I'm not sure about the religious comment though, but perhaps I just don't have enough experience with that. I do understand that you don't mean everybody who ships AD/MM, but others may be put off by your opinion. As for there being a lack of erotic writing, I've noticed that over the past year, interest in AD/MM "lemons" has increased and was actually a main reason for starting up the proboard site. I'm glad more people are realizing that just because you're considered old by society, it doesn't mean you can't have fun in the bedroom. (Or the closet, or the transfiguration classroom!)

Once again, good essay.

- April :-)
aka Catwoman99

Date: 2005-06-20 02:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jestana.livejournal.com
I'm quite flattered to see one of my stories posted here, especially since I'm one of the writers who falls between the ages of fifteen and twenty-five. *grin*

Date: 2005-06-25 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jestana.livejournal.com
Thank you. *bows* I feel more mature than many of the others my age. Except my twin. She's always been more mature than me. *grin*

Date: 2007-08-09 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-summoning-d.livejournal.com
I think the whole 'ship is utterly adorable. I was glad to see the 'hot chocolate inconsistency' noted; I remember reading CoS for the first time and wondering why on earth they wee wandering around the school in their nightclothes.

Peace out
~TSD

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