Gunn/Lindsey
Aug. 26th, 2004 09:59 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
idyll.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
ship_manifestoPairing: Gunn/Lindsey (Angel)
Title: Textless but Teeming
Author: Dana Woods
Spoilers: up to the end of Angel
Email: danawoods at gmail dot com
Personal Website: Broken Symmetry
Gunn/Lindsey - Textless but Teeming
There is no text.
There isn't even any subtext.
There also isn't any layered interaction specifications provided by the show, as Gunn and Lindsey had only a few shared scenes over the course of the show, all of which contained negligible interaction between the two.
Despite all of this, one can extrapolate and postulate on behavior and interaction and find that...well, Gunn and Lindsey, together, are rife with a multitude of possibilities, and complimenting contrasts.
My first encounter with Gunn and Lindsey was in writing it. Without anything established to work with, either in canon or fic, I had to toss the two together and set up interaction that was true to each of them. I feared they would clash so significantly as to be impossible to write. Instead I found the closest thing to an OTP that I will ever have. And in others’ hands, I’ve found a thread of similar interaction and dynamics that needs to get far more attention than it does.
There are a variety of ways in which a Gunn/Lindsey can be established, and one of the interesting aspects of the ship as a whole is that their opposing morals stances have to be addressed in some manner.
Gunn spent many years in his old neighborhood fighting vampires and there were never any shades of gray for him until he met Angel. He has little use for gray and prefers to keep everything as close to black/white as possible, and Lindsey is the embodiment of gray who has very little use for those firmly entrenched in the white.
The navigation of moral stances may not be shown in a fic, but the author still has to sit down and figure out what would make Gunn be willing to even speak with Lindsey, have Lindsey not just scoff and walk away.
In Cold Comfort (by far the Gunn/Lindsey story that gets me in every way) by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
justhuman relegates the morality issues to the backseat in favor of a more pressing and personal issue; that of Gunn and Lindsey’s shared experiences in the Wolfram and Hart holding dimension, which bring them together however briefly.
The moral stances cause interesting and fascinating dynamics. Imagine Lindsey, faced with the steadfast clarity of Gunn's take on morality, while mired in his own confused and ever changing stance. Think of Gunn, who must consistently assess himself to ensure that he's as firmly entrenched in the white as he wants to be, interacting with the gray and gaining a firsthand understanding of it.
Does exposure to an opposing moral stance shift either or both of their stances? Are the moral stances reinforced by comparison to the opposing stance? Do they question their chosen stance? Does it make them pick one and stay with it?
Any of these can be made to happen within the confines of the pairing, believably, and the result is an intricate study of both characters, the overarching moral spectrum of the show, and the characters as they relate to one another.
Looking beyond the moral stance issue, Gunn and Lindsey's contrasting personalities make for fascinating interaction and relations.
Gunn, as mentioned, led other young people in his old neighborhood, and dealt with them at Anne’s shelter, as we discovered in season two. He has experience with petulant adolescent behavior. As much as I adore Lindsey, the fact of the matter is that much of his behavior falls into this category.
Gunn has little patience for the petulance. Lindsey has little patience with superior attitudes. But with the interaction adjusted to compensate for whatever circumstance was used to bring the pair together, these same traits can be sought after and welcomed by both. And in that case, these traits fit together like interlocking pieces, which is the case for most, if not all, of their other personality traits.
Another interesting dynamic is that of Gunn as a steadying influence on Lindsey, through force of personality. Conversely, Lindsey as a confusing factor on Gunn, clouding things Gunn was once very sure of, is another dynamic that works. And, once again, depending on the handling of the scenario, it could very well be that Lindsey needs just a little more steadiness, and Gunn just a little more cloudiness, making them interlock once again.
Taking them further into the realm of a relationship that encompasses something caring or loving, there are still more contrasts that interlock.
Gunn loves easily and loyally, as we saw with Fred in seasons three and four. He was protective, but not overprotective, and he respected her thoughts and opinions. Lindsey loves fiercely and selfishly, which came to light in season two with Darla. A great deal of what he offered Darla was rejected as not good enough when compared to Angel.
More contrasts that compliment one another, as Gunn's protectiveness would prevent him from rejecting anything that Lindsey has to offer, be it love or something approaching it, because it would demean Lindsey as a whole. And Lindsey would be able to give all he wants and have it accepted in a way that it wasn't with Darla, in a way that maybe it hasn't ever been accepted.
The conflicts that arise from personality traits that don't align within the story, and the outside forces of Angel, Darla, and Wolfram and Hart, do nothing but add to the layers of the character and bring out a truly complex situation. Especially in season five when Gunn's moral stance slipped slightly.
But, of course, I speak of layers and complexities that are not widely delved into. Despite the possibilities in the pairing, there is far too little fic for it. What there is, though, serves to examine both characters and connect them believably.
The first ever Gunn/Lindsey story was Lost by Pet. This story is set pre-series, neatly circumventing the moral stance aspects, and taking a completely unique look at both characters when Gunn is "persuaded" to assist Wolfram and Hart. Forced interaction, a darker look at their personalities, and some brokenness that still manages to weave something "more" between the pair that provokes Lindsey to help Gunn escape Wolfram and Hart's clutches.
moosesal tackles the pairing in A Pound of Pennies set during season five, post-"Shells", but Jossed before "Underneath". Gunn has been on the outs from the gang for a few months, and he gets Lindsey knocking at his door, trying to curry protection from Angel. In the messiness of season five, Gunn's black/white view is somewhat skewered, allowing a lot more ease in actually bringing them together even briefly.
Much to my pleasure,justhuman tackled Gunn/Lindsey more than once. Set post-"Not Fade Away" with Gunn and Lindsey both surviving. For that aspect alone she became my hero, but the story itself is just lovely and real. In Precision in an Imprecise World, JH does the extrapolation and positing that's required for this ship, and draws parallels between Gunn and Lindsey's mutual need for control and the somewhat similar reasons for it in both of them.
Done well, with inspired extrapolation and honest characterization, Gunn/Lindsey can be a beautiful and wonderfully ship that's not in the least neat and simple, and has very little chance of them settling down into something easy and smooth, or even something long-lasting in the least. It can be something heart-wrenching and thought-provoking.
*
Other Gunn/Lindsey stories:
Smoke and Mirrors - A 10 story series. By, uh, me.
Another story called Run Away was written bypatrizia. but the journal has been deleted and I haven't been able to find another link to the story. Thanks to anonymousdi for the link.
Title: Textless but Teeming
Author: Dana Woods
Spoilers: up to the end of Angel
Email: danawoods at gmail dot com
Personal Website: Broken Symmetry
Gunn/Lindsey - Textless but Teeming
There is no text.
There isn't even any subtext.
There also isn't any layered interaction specifications provided by the show, as Gunn and Lindsey had only a few shared scenes over the course of the show, all of which contained negligible interaction between the two.
Despite all of this, one can extrapolate and postulate on behavior and interaction and find that...well, Gunn and Lindsey, together, are rife with a multitude of possibilities, and complimenting contrasts.
My first encounter with Gunn and Lindsey was in writing it. Without anything established to work with, either in canon or fic, I had to toss the two together and set up interaction that was true to each of them. I feared they would clash so significantly as to be impossible to write. Instead I found the closest thing to an OTP that I will ever have. And in others’ hands, I’ve found a thread of similar interaction and dynamics that needs to get far more attention than it does.
There are a variety of ways in which a Gunn/Lindsey can be established, and one of the interesting aspects of the ship as a whole is that their opposing morals stances have to be addressed in some manner.
Gunn spent many years in his old neighborhood fighting vampires and there were never any shades of gray for him until he met Angel. He has little use for gray and prefers to keep everything as close to black/white as possible, and Lindsey is the embodiment of gray who has very little use for those firmly entrenched in the white.
The navigation of moral stances may not be shown in a fic, but the author still has to sit down and figure out what would make Gunn be willing to even speak with Lindsey, have Lindsey not just scoff and walk away.
In Cold Comfort (by far the Gunn/Lindsey story that gets me in every way) by
justhuman relegates the morality issues to the backseat in favor of a more pressing and personal issue; that of Gunn and Lindsey’s shared experiences in the Wolfram and Hart holding dimension, which bring them together however briefly. The moral stances cause interesting and fascinating dynamics. Imagine Lindsey, faced with the steadfast clarity of Gunn's take on morality, while mired in his own confused and ever changing stance. Think of Gunn, who must consistently assess himself to ensure that he's as firmly entrenched in the white as he wants to be, interacting with the gray and gaining a firsthand understanding of it.
Does exposure to an opposing moral stance shift either or both of their stances? Are the moral stances reinforced by comparison to the opposing stance? Do they question their chosen stance? Does it make them pick one and stay with it?
Any of these can be made to happen within the confines of the pairing, believably, and the result is an intricate study of both characters, the overarching moral spectrum of the show, and the characters as they relate to one another.
Looking beyond the moral stance issue, Gunn and Lindsey's contrasting personalities make for fascinating interaction and relations.
Gunn, as mentioned, led other young people in his old neighborhood, and dealt with them at Anne’s shelter, as we discovered in season two. He has experience with petulant adolescent behavior. As much as I adore Lindsey, the fact of the matter is that much of his behavior falls into this category.
Gunn has little patience for the petulance. Lindsey has little patience with superior attitudes. But with the interaction adjusted to compensate for whatever circumstance was used to bring the pair together, these same traits can be sought after and welcomed by both. And in that case, these traits fit together like interlocking pieces, which is the case for most, if not all, of their other personality traits.
Another interesting dynamic is that of Gunn as a steadying influence on Lindsey, through force of personality. Conversely, Lindsey as a confusing factor on Gunn, clouding things Gunn was once very sure of, is another dynamic that works. And, once again, depending on the handling of the scenario, it could very well be that Lindsey needs just a little more steadiness, and Gunn just a little more cloudiness, making them interlock once again.
Taking them further into the realm of a relationship that encompasses something caring or loving, there are still more contrasts that interlock.
Gunn loves easily and loyally, as we saw with Fred in seasons three and four. He was protective, but not overprotective, and he respected her thoughts and opinions. Lindsey loves fiercely and selfishly, which came to light in season two with Darla. A great deal of what he offered Darla was rejected as not good enough when compared to Angel.
More contrasts that compliment one another, as Gunn's protectiveness would prevent him from rejecting anything that Lindsey has to offer, be it love or something approaching it, because it would demean Lindsey as a whole. And Lindsey would be able to give all he wants and have it accepted in a way that it wasn't with Darla, in a way that maybe it hasn't ever been accepted.
The conflicts that arise from personality traits that don't align within the story, and the outside forces of Angel, Darla, and Wolfram and Hart, do nothing but add to the layers of the character and bring out a truly complex situation. Especially in season five when Gunn's moral stance slipped slightly.
But, of course, I speak of layers and complexities that are not widely delved into. Despite the possibilities in the pairing, there is far too little fic for it. What there is, though, serves to examine both characters and connect them believably.
The first ever Gunn/Lindsey story was Lost by Pet. This story is set pre-series, neatly circumventing the moral stance aspects, and taking a completely unique look at both characters when Gunn is "persuaded" to assist Wolfram and Hart. Forced interaction, a darker look at their personalities, and some brokenness that still manages to weave something "more" between the pair that provokes Lindsey to help Gunn escape Wolfram and Hart's clutches.
moosesal tackles the pairing in A Pound of Pennies set during season five, post-"Shells", but Jossed before "Underneath". Gunn has been on the outs from the gang for a few months, and he gets Lindsey knocking at his door, trying to curry protection from Angel. In the messiness of season five, Gunn's black/white view is somewhat skewered, allowing a lot more ease in actually bringing them together even briefly.Much to my pleasure,
justhuman tackled Gunn/Lindsey more than once. Set post-"Not Fade Away" with Gunn and Lindsey both surviving. For that aspect alone she became my hero, but the story itself is just lovely and real. In Precision in an Imprecise World, JH does the extrapolation and positing that's required for this ship, and draws parallels between Gunn and Lindsey's mutual need for control and the somewhat similar reasons for it in both of them. Done well, with inspired extrapolation and honest characterization, Gunn/Lindsey can be a beautiful and wonderfully ship that's not in the least neat and simple, and has very little chance of them settling down into something easy and smooth, or even something long-lasting in the least. It can be something heart-wrenching and thought-provoking.
*
Other Gunn/Lindsey stories:
Smoke and Mirrors - A 10 story series. By, uh, me.
Another story called Run Away was written by
patrizia. anonymousdi for the link.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 07:15 pm (UTC)This essay was awesome. I want to read this pairing now. I have already read Lost by Pet a LONG time ago and remember being sad that there wasn't more of this pairing. Now thanks to you and those lovely links, I'll be able to read more.
*hugs*
no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 08:03 pm (UTC)Glad you like the essay. It was very difficult to quantify why this pairing just works for me, and I'm soooo happy that you want to read more! Because then maybe you'll write some and then there will be more fic and one day I'll be able to start a G/L archive! *ahem*
I love my boys.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 12:06 am (UTC)Lovely essay, Dana.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 04:54 am (UTC)Thanks, sweetie.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 08:05 pm (UTC)I'm convinced that one has to attempt to write them to get it. Hee.
Thanks for the kind words; I really needed them.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 10:03 pm (UTC)Damn, girl. I'm impressed.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 04:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 10:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 04:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-26 10:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 04:50 am (UTC)Hee, I so love really UC pairings because it takes work to pull them off.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 09:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 10:25 am (UTC)And, your icon! How does one get to be an elitist slasher?
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 10:38 am (UTC)*hugs* Dude, I've been trying to write a post about Spike and Xander without using their text and subtext, and it's harder than it looks.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 03:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 03:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 12:18 pm (UTC)But you've made some really interesting points. It never ocurred to me just how similar their backgrounds are, in that they were both born/raised poor, had to struggle to survive. But while Gunn stuck to his roots (before he joined AI) and always tried to protect and make things better for others, Lindsey turned his back on his upbringing and made it big as a hot-shot lawyer. And then Gunn later donned the lawyer suit (though perhaps not for the same reasons as Lindsey) and had to deal with what it was like to have that much power at his fingertips.
Hmm, verrrry interesting! Still not sure I could become a serious 'shipper of this pairing though :)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 03:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 01:58 pm (UTC)And as for "Run Away" by
http://www.geocities.com/lifeisbittersweet/runaway.htm
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 03:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 03:43 pm (UTC):::misses you:::
no subject
Date: 2004-08-27 04:31 pm (UTC)This was wonderful. And you were worried, why? Pfft. *hugs*
And dude...so pretty together. Such intensity and both love so freaking hard. Can you imagine them trying to stay away from each other only to be pulled right back in? *gah*
no subject
Date: 2004-09-01 06:45 am (UTC)