Spike/Fred: Pi r Effulgent
Jul. 12th, 2009 04:30 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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ship_manifestoTitle: Pi r Effulgent
Author: sockmonkeyhere
Fandom: Angel (the series)
Pairing: Spike/Fred
Spoilers: BtVS Seasons 5-7; AtS Season 5; Angel: After the Fall comic books
Disclaimer: The characters in this manifesto are the creation of Mutant Enemy; the comic book panels are the creations of IDW.
Banner by sockmonkeyhere
“The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco”:
Fred: You see that in the science?
Spike: No, Love, in the poetry.
“Hellbound”:
Spike to Fred: Well... might be a hug in your future after all.
It all began – for me, at any rate – with a vampire. Way back in November of 2000, I’d been eating a TV dinner and watching the beginning of the porch scene in the Season 5 Buffy episode “Fool for Love” and thinking how spastic that villain Spike guy’s hair looked and how rotten he was to Harmony and dammit why did he have to replace my beloved Oz in the cast…
And then he looked at his weeping, despondent enemy with a trace of sympathy, and lowered his shotgun. I lowered my fork. Spike – evil SPIKE – was patting Buffy awkwardly on the shoulder and asking if there was anything he could do to help. My Swanson Chicken Pot Pie now cold and forgotten, I stared at the screen in amazement and thought to myself, “Well, I’ll be damned. He’s got some goodness in him! There’s more to this character than I thought!”
From that point on, I felt sorry for Spike. I began to like the guy. I was even able to overlook his ol’ hair helmet. And when he fell in love with Buffy, I wanted him to win her love in return. And when he became a friend and protector of Dawn and Joyce, I wanted him to become a member of their family. And when he threw in his lot with the Scoobies and was kind to brain-damaged Tara and tag-teamed with Willow to get to Glory’s tower…and oh, dear lord, when he broke down in sobs at the sight of Buffy’s dead body…I wanted the gang to finally accept him.
Unfortunately, I never felt that any of those “I want”s came to fruition. Seasons 6 and 7 left me very disappointed and unsatisfied, and feeling more pity for Spike than ever. After struggling against all odds to be a better man, he deserved a reward for his suffering and efforts…he deserved his heart’s desire: a girlfriend who was openly kind and affectionate and happy and not ashamed of him or of her feelings for him. Someone like Tara, perhaps, or like the Buffybot (who, tellingly, he had programmed with those very qualities), or…like Fred. Gentle, goofy, friendly Fred, who’d been through so much hell herself and still managed to maintain her love for life and her faith in humanity. And the more I thought about Spike joining the cast of Angel, the more I thought to myself, “Why not Fred?”
A relationship with Fred would be a clean slate, a fresh start, with none of the negative baggage of Spike’s time in Sunnydale. It wouldn’t have to be epic the way it was with Dru and Buffy; on AtS Spike would no longer be allowed to be the romantic leading man anyway – that space being reserved for the show’s star, Angel – so any new romance for him would undoubtedly be kept low-key. And I didn’t mind that at all, as the epic, angsty, trauma-and-abuse-laden romance thing had already been done…SO done, in fact, that I was emotionally exhausted by it and ready for something peaceful and simple.
The early part of AtS’s final season seemed to be setting the stage for exactly that, as Fred showed herself to be immune to Angel’s jealous insults and Gunn’s skepticism and Wesley’s foreboding (to say nothing of the former watcher’s strange lack of interest in a vampire who’d taken back his own soul! ...Yes, I'm still trying to figure that one out.) She was willing to give Spike a fair chance. And Spike in turn was drawn by her compassion…so much so that he was soon risking his life to protect her. She believed beyond a doubt that he was truly a hero. There was teasing and flirting, but of a sweet, fondly nature, not meant to aggravate her or overpower. Fred brought out Spike’s inner William the Poet.
Unfortunately, after only a few episodes of this blossoming relationship, the storyline changed and Fred and Spike were rarely shown together anymore, their closeness seemingly forgotten. (And then they killed Fred off, for which I’ll NEVER FORGIVE MUTANT ENEMY! *ahem*…But that’s another rant.) The official continuation of AtS in comic book form brought a brief resurgence of hope when Spike stumbled across a resurrected Fred and became her loving caretaker. Then once again, hope and joy were destroyed when it was revealed that it wasn’t Fred after all, but only Illyria mimicking Fred and fooling Spike. Hopefully there’ll someday be a writer on the comic book staff who wants Fred to live and will bring her back permanently…and perhaps even pair her up with Spike again.
I truly believe that Fred and Spike would appeal to each other. For one thing, Fred bears similarities to many of the beloved females in Spike’s past: like Drusilla, she’s a bit odd, and was cuckoo post-Pylea (she physically resembles Dru quite a bit, too); she’s got the motherly, supportive nature of Joyce; she has Buffy’s bravery in the face of danger; and there’s an almost childish innocence about her like Dawn. If need be, she’s quite capable of taking care of herself, but she seems the type who wouldn’t mind at all if her fella wanted to take on the role of chivalrous, courtly knight and treat her as his tender lady fair. At the same time, I can’t imagine Spike becoming upset if Fred wanted to personally break open a can of whup-ass on someone who’s done her wrong (*cough*ProfessorSeidel*.) And that brain of hers? Hey, she’s his “fetching mad scientist.” I think he’d be damn proud of it.
They jive in other ways, as well. Fred’s gone through some of the same torments that Spike has: both have dealt with bouts of insanity, and been subjected to long-term control through electrical shocks (her by the “cow” slave collar; he by the Initiative chip) – she gets where he’s coming from. They have fun together, too, and obviously enjoy each other’s company; in some of the TV episode scenes, they were shown sharing a sense of play that was quite charming (“Eeeek! Look! I dropped my papers!”) And they’ve got matching cheekbones. Yes, I know that’s irrelevant.
Then there’s comedy. Both characters have proven adept at bringing the silly -- Fred’s drunken bellow, “HEY, YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME, BUDDY? THAT’S RIGHT, KEEP WALKING. YOU WALK ALONE! YOU WALK ALONE!" is right up there with the best of Spike’s hilarious “wacky neighbor” moments of BtVS Season 4.
There could also be angst, if necessary. Spike would be on the rebound from Buffy, after all, and Fred would be on the rebound from Gunn (if your story is a new version of Season 5) or in shock/mourning over Wesley (if your story’s post-Not Fade Away.) Throw some of those exes into the tale and you’ve got a helluva mess. Then there’d be all the trauma of Fred dealing with Illyria, and Spike dealing with the limitations of sex with a frail human, and Spike maybe having horrible flashbacks about his re-souling and his time in the school basement, and Fred maybe being a basket case after resurrection, and Spike being torn between letting her go as he did in “A Hole in the World” or keeping whatever part of her was left, however damaged, as he wanted to do with Buffy in “Afterlife”…or just, y’know, OUTSIDE STUFF giving them grief! The source of angst doesn’t always have to be from within. There could be an angst demon, who blows angst-inducing vapors from its nose, and leaves dried-up angst boogers underneath our couple’s nightstand…(This segment of the manifesto brought to you by Willow and her mindless babblespeak.)
And yes, there could be hotness. Fred often dressed like a mousy frump, but the girl herself was quite pretty. (My goodness, have you seen some of Amy Acker’s Maxim photos? Yowza!) There was even a primal, primitive eroticism to her persona at times – witness the scene in which she’s standing on a hill in Pylea, long, tangled hair falling around her unwashed face and enormous brown eyes as she holds aloft a bloodied arm to Angel. She might not have the physical stamina of a slayer or a vampire, but she’s definitely shown evidence of the potential to match their sexual passion. And she and Spike have definitely shown evidence that they find each other sexually attractive (the episode “Hellbound” being the strongest example.)
For now, it’s up to the audience to take all those elements and deliver a story. Within the Spred fandom there’s currently a small but very well-written number of fanfics, some graphics and manips, and even a video or two (which is no mean feat considering that there’s no footage of the actors kissing, hugging, or even touching each other!) Most of the fics I’ve seen are alternate reality versions of AtS Season 5, with a few here and there set after the TV series finale. A list of the fics, with links, can be found here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/spike-fred-appreciation-5-because-s-meant-kinda-thing-62907361/
Links to Spred art and videos here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326
Spred meta here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327
And Spred discussion here:
http://community.livejournal.com/spred/
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=939 (must be a member to view)
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/spike-fred-appreciation-5-because-s-meant-kinda-thing-62907361/
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/poetic-science-4-spike-fred-because-reality-bends-desire-6598/
Back in the beginning of AtS’s final season, about a dozen Spike/Fred websites sprang up. Most have since closed, but here’s the ones that still exist as of this writing:
(1) Between Heaven and Hell
http://geocities.com/betweenhh/
(2) Saving Grace
http://forsaken-faith.org/sg/index2.htm
(3) Buttery
http://buttery.adamao.org/
My favorite Spred video is this piece by DarlaProduction (aka Mscotstar), which is done so skillfully and beautifully that it looks as if they’re actually making love! With each other! It’s an alternate reality Season 4 called Spike and Fred ~ A Different Path:
http://buffytube.ning.com/video/spike-and-fred-a-different
The best actual TV episodes for shippy Spike/Fred scenes are AtS Season 5’s “Just Rewards” (particularly the ending), “The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco” (He called her ‘Luv.’ *swoon*), and “Hellbound” (He wants to hug her! He’s lookin’ at her nekid! He’s furious when Creepy Reaper Guy makes sexual threats toward her! No, no, wait, don’t roll the end credits; he hasn’t gotten his hug yet! HE DESERVES A HUG! WE DESERVE TO SEE THE HUG! AAAAAAAAUGH!)
And for some examples of excellent Spred fanfic, check out anything by kats_meow, buffyx, evenstar, or kantayra. (I’m a Spred writer, too, although my stuff tends to take forever and sometimes leans toward the goony.)
And here’s the bits from the comic books that seemed to promise a Spred romance (but sadly and inexplicably, didn’t deliver):
(They're sharin' a heart-shaped shard! At least the artist seems to still be a Spred fan.)
So that’s my thoughts on the Spike/Fred ‘ship. Brought often to the brink of canonization, but never quite allowed to get there, it’s a pairing that glows like a small, lost, forgotten gold nugget. For those of us who are tired of unrequited love and Spike being treated as the outsider, and for those of us sickened by Fred getting wiped from the series to make way for a newer and bluer character…maybe one day Spred’ll finally get to happen. Maybe, someday, reality really will bend to our desire.
It’s worth saving.
Author: sockmonkeyhere
Fandom: Angel (the series)
Pairing: Spike/Fred
Spoilers: BtVS Seasons 5-7; AtS Season 5; Angel: After the Fall comic books
Disclaimer: The characters in this manifesto are the creation of Mutant Enemy; the comic book panels are the creations of IDW.
Banner by sockmonkeyhere
“The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco”:
Fred: You see that in the science?
Spike: No, Love, in the poetry.
“Hellbound”:
Spike to Fred: Well... might be a hug in your future after all.
It all began – for me, at any rate – with a vampire. Way back in November of 2000, I’d been eating a TV dinner and watching the beginning of the porch scene in the Season 5 Buffy episode “Fool for Love” and thinking how spastic that villain Spike guy’s hair looked and how rotten he was to Harmony and dammit why did he have to replace my beloved Oz in the cast…
And then he looked at his weeping, despondent enemy with a trace of sympathy, and lowered his shotgun. I lowered my fork. Spike – evil SPIKE – was patting Buffy awkwardly on the shoulder and asking if there was anything he could do to help. My Swanson Chicken Pot Pie now cold and forgotten, I stared at the screen in amazement and thought to myself, “Well, I’ll be damned. He’s got some goodness in him! There’s more to this character than I thought!”
From that point on, I felt sorry for Spike. I began to like the guy. I was even able to overlook his ol’ hair helmet. And when he fell in love with Buffy, I wanted him to win her love in return. And when he became a friend and protector of Dawn and Joyce, I wanted him to become a member of their family. And when he threw in his lot with the Scoobies and was kind to brain-damaged Tara and tag-teamed with Willow to get to Glory’s tower…and oh, dear lord, when he broke down in sobs at the sight of Buffy’s dead body…I wanted the gang to finally accept him.
Unfortunately, I never felt that any of those “I want”s came to fruition. Seasons 6 and 7 left me very disappointed and unsatisfied, and feeling more pity for Spike than ever. After struggling against all odds to be a better man, he deserved a reward for his suffering and efforts…he deserved his heart’s desire: a girlfriend who was openly kind and affectionate and happy and not ashamed of him or of her feelings for him. Someone like Tara, perhaps, or like the Buffybot (who, tellingly, he had programmed with those very qualities), or…like Fred. Gentle, goofy, friendly Fred, who’d been through so much hell herself and still managed to maintain her love for life and her faith in humanity. And the more I thought about Spike joining the cast of Angel, the more I thought to myself, “Why not Fred?”
A relationship with Fred would be a clean slate, a fresh start, with none of the negative baggage of Spike’s time in Sunnydale. It wouldn’t have to be epic the way it was with Dru and Buffy; on AtS Spike would no longer be allowed to be the romantic leading man anyway – that space being reserved for the show’s star, Angel – so any new romance for him would undoubtedly be kept low-key. And I didn’t mind that at all, as the epic, angsty, trauma-and-abuse-laden romance thing had already been done…SO done, in fact, that I was emotionally exhausted by it and ready for something peaceful and simple.
The early part of AtS’s final season seemed to be setting the stage for exactly that, as Fred showed herself to be immune to Angel’s jealous insults and Gunn’s skepticism and Wesley’s foreboding (to say nothing of the former watcher’s strange lack of interest in a vampire who’d taken back his own soul! ...Yes, I'm still trying to figure that one out.) She was willing to give Spike a fair chance. And Spike in turn was drawn by her compassion…so much so that he was soon risking his life to protect her. She believed beyond a doubt that he was truly a hero. There was teasing and flirting, but of a sweet, fondly nature, not meant to aggravate her or overpower. Fred brought out Spike’s inner William the Poet.
Unfortunately, after only a few episodes of this blossoming relationship, the storyline changed and Fred and Spike were rarely shown together anymore, their closeness seemingly forgotten. (And then they killed Fred off, for which I’ll NEVER FORGIVE MUTANT ENEMY! *ahem*…But that’s another rant.) The official continuation of AtS in comic book form brought a brief resurgence of hope when Spike stumbled across a resurrected Fred and became her loving caretaker. Then once again, hope and joy were destroyed when it was revealed that it wasn’t Fred after all, but only Illyria mimicking Fred and fooling Spike. Hopefully there’ll someday be a writer on the comic book staff who wants Fred to live and will bring her back permanently…and perhaps even pair her up with Spike again.
I truly believe that Fred and Spike would appeal to each other. For one thing, Fred bears similarities to many of the beloved females in Spike’s past: like Drusilla, she’s a bit odd, and was cuckoo post-Pylea (she physically resembles Dru quite a bit, too); she’s got the motherly, supportive nature of Joyce; she has Buffy’s bravery in the face of danger; and there’s an almost childish innocence about her like Dawn. If need be, she’s quite capable of taking care of herself, but she seems the type who wouldn’t mind at all if her fella wanted to take on the role of chivalrous, courtly knight and treat her as his tender lady fair. At the same time, I can’t imagine Spike becoming upset if Fred wanted to personally break open a can of whup-ass on someone who’s done her wrong (*cough*ProfessorSeidel*.) And that brain of hers? Hey, she’s his “fetching mad scientist.” I think he’d be damn proud of it.
They jive in other ways, as well. Fred’s gone through some of the same torments that Spike has: both have dealt with bouts of insanity, and been subjected to long-term control through electrical shocks (her by the “cow” slave collar; he by the Initiative chip) – she gets where he’s coming from. They have fun together, too, and obviously enjoy each other’s company; in some of the TV episode scenes, they were shown sharing a sense of play that was quite charming (“Eeeek! Look! I dropped my papers!”) And they’ve got matching cheekbones. Yes, I know that’s irrelevant.
Then there’s comedy. Both characters have proven adept at bringing the silly -- Fred’s drunken bellow, “HEY, YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME, BUDDY? THAT’S RIGHT, KEEP WALKING. YOU WALK ALONE! YOU WALK ALONE!" is right up there with the best of Spike’s hilarious “wacky neighbor” moments of BtVS Season 4.
There could also be angst, if necessary. Spike would be on the rebound from Buffy, after all, and Fred would be on the rebound from Gunn (if your story is a new version of Season 5) or in shock/mourning over Wesley (if your story’s post-Not Fade Away.) Throw some of those exes into the tale and you’ve got a helluva mess. Then there’d be all the trauma of Fred dealing with Illyria, and Spike dealing with the limitations of sex with a frail human, and Spike maybe having horrible flashbacks about his re-souling and his time in the school basement, and Fred maybe being a basket case after resurrection, and Spike being torn between letting her go as he did in “A Hole in the World” or keeping whatever part of her was left, however damaged, as he wanted to do with Buffy in “Afterlife”…or just, y’know, OUTSIDE STUFF giving them grief! The source of angst doesn’t always have to be from within. There could be an angst demon, who blows angst-inducing vapors from its nose, and leaves dried-up angst boogers underneath our couple’s nightstand…(This segment of the manifesto brought to you by Willow and her mindless babblespeak.)
And yes, there could be hotness. Fred often dressed like a mousy frump, but the girl herself was quite pretty. (My goodness, have you seen some of Amy Acker’s Maxim photos? Yowza!) There was even a primal, primitive eroticism to her persona at times – witness the scene in which she’s standing on a hill in Pylea, long, tangled hair falling around her unwashed face and enormous brown eyes as she holds aloft a bloodied arm to Angel. She might not have the physical stamina of a slayer or a vampire, but she’s definitely shown evidence of the potential to match their sexual passion. And she and Spike have definitely shown evidence that they find each other sexually attractive (the episode “Hellbound” being the strongest example.)
For now, it’s up to the audience to take all those elements and deliver a story. Within the Spred fandom there’s currently a small but very well-written number of fanfics, some graphics and manips, and even a video or two (which is no mean feat considering that there’s no footage of the actors kissing, hugging, or even touching each other!) Most of the fics I’ve seen are alternate reality versions of AtS Season 5, with a few here and there set after the TV series finale. A list of the fics, with links, can be found here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/spike-fred-appreciation-5-because-s-meant-kinda-thing-62907361/
Links to Spred art and videos here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=326
Spred meta here:
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327
And Spred discussion here:
http://community.livejournal.com/spred/
http://www.fuzzyshark.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=939 (must be a member to view)
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/spike-fred-appreciation-5-because-s-meant-kinda-thing-62907361/
http://www.fanforum.com/f58/poetic-science-4-spike-fred-because-reality-bends-desire-6598/
Back in the beginning of AtS’s final season, about a dozen Spike/Fred websites sprang up. Most have since closed, but here’s the ones that still exist as of this writing:
(1) Between Heaven and Hell
http://geocities.com/betweenhh/
(2) Saving Grace
http://forsaken-faith.org/sg/index2.htm
(3) Buttery
http://buttery.adamao.org/
My favorite Spred video is this piece by DarlaProduction (aka Mscotstar), which is done so skillfully and beautifully that it looks as if they’re actually making love! With each other! It’s an alternate reality Season 4 called Spike and Fred ~ A Different Path:
http://buffytube.ning.com/video/spike-and-fred-a-different
The best actual TV episodes for shippy Spike/Fred scenes are AtS Season 5’s “Just Rewards” (particularly the ending), “The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco” (He called her ‘Luv.’ *swoon*), and “Hellbound” (He wants to hug her! He’s lookin’ at her nekid! He’s furious when Creepy Reaper Guy makes sexual threats toward her! No, no, wait, don’t roll the end credits; he hasn’t gotten his hug yet! HE DESERVES A HUG! WE DESERVE TO SEE THE HUG! AAAAAAAAUGH!)
And for some examples of excellent Spred fanfic, check out anything by kats_meow, buffyx, evenstar, or kantayra. (I’m a Spred writer, too, although my stuff tends to take forever and sometimes leans toward the goony.)
And here’s the bits from the comic books that seemed to promise a Spred romance (but sadly and inexplicably, didn’t deliver):
(They're sharin' a heart-shaped shard! At least the artist seems to still be a Spred fan.)
So that’s my thoughts on the Spike/Fred ‘ship. Brought often to the brink of canonization, but never quite allowed to get there, it’s a pairing that glows like a small, lost, forgotten gold nugget. For those of us who are tired of unrequited love and Spike being treated as the outsider, and for those of us sickened by Fred getting wiped from the series to make way for a newer and bluer character…maybe one day Spred’ll finally get to happen. Maybe, someday, reality really will bend to our desire.
It’s worth saving.
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no subject
Date: 2009-07-12 11:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-12 11:38 pm (UTC)(Spred, I mean. Not my essay.)
no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 12:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 12:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 01:41 am (UTC)*snerk* Well, yes, but I'm gonna say they could find plenty of problems all on their own. Bless 'em. You make a convincing case. I'm of the "Spike is a little black dress" school, 'cause he goes with everyone, but you've made me a Spred fan. Just one more chapter of "In Dreams" and I'll be a true believer, I'm sure.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 01:36 am (UTC)In Dreams Part 14
http://sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com/37731.html#cutid1
no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 10:22 am (UTC)I remember all the talks about possible Spike/Fred romance back in 2003... I so loved them in Hellbound, especially in the scene where they play the "ghost and frightened girl" game. It was so endearing - a 100-plus years vampire and the boss of the science department play like children in a sandbox. They definitely evoked the best in each other.
no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 01:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 06:08 pm (UTC)Shakatany
PS Now that you've whetted my appetite for Spred any chance that your muse might kick in with some more "In Dreams" chapters?
no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 01:48 am (UTC)Now that you've whetted my appetite for Spred any chance that your muse might kick in with some more "In Dreams" chapters?
Say no more; say no more (nudge, nudge) ;D
In Dreams Part 14
http://sockmonkeyhere.livejournal.com/37731.html#cutid1
no subject
Date: 2009-08-04 02:08 am (UTC)I think the AtS writers had no clue how deep and complex that character was, and they didn't use him to best advantage at all.
I actually think the writers did want to develop Spike. But they didn't want him to take over the show (a la Seven of Nine on Star Trek: Voyager) so they were moving slow and steady. And, as a lot of the crew has said, they thought there would be a season 6, and already had ideas about what they would do in that season, and they were setting up for that in season 5. Then along came the announcement of the cancellation (which surprised everyone) and they had to abandon whatever development they were doing in favor of wrapping up the show.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-05 07:14 pm (UTC)I do understand the AtS writers being worried that such a charismatic character as Spike might overshadow the other characters, and their being concerned that they might be tempted to use him too much because...well, because he's just so fascinating to write. But it's always seemed to me that instead of back-burnering him while letting him keep his mature, heroic, romantic BtVS S5-7 persona, they allowed him in the foreground but made him the shallow, annoying comic relief -- that that was their way to prevent him from overshadowing Angel, Wes, etc.
There were some Mutant Enemy writers -- Stephen DeKnight, for one -- that I think always wrote Spike with depth and respect and intelligence, and I wish that only those writers had been assigned to develop his AtS story. Craft and Fain admitted that they got his character all wrong, and at two different fan events David Fury told us that he'd advised Joss Whedon, who'd written the "Destiny" scene in which Spike callously treats Harmony like a blow-up doll, not to put that scene in, because it would hurt and anger a lot of fans and because he (Fury) didn't believe that Spike would do such a thing at that point in his evolution. (He said that Joss made him insert the scene in the script anyway, because Joss said he thought it was cute and funny.)
So it never felt to me like a slow and steady progression, but rather like a series of confused, erratic lurches and jerks, and inconsistent characterization that went all over the map.
Oh my goodness, did Voyager end up being The Seven of Nine Show? I've never seen any episodes beyond the first few that she was in. I thought her character was interesting, but I had no idea that she became so popular!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 07:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 01:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-13 08:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 02:06 am (UTC)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROhDj3dNRIY
no subject
Date: 2009-07-14 12:22 pm (UTC)I haven't actually seen any Angel episodes yet, but my friend, you have convinced me. I've spent the better part of the last two days reading all of those Fics you've posted, and I didn't fall asleep last night because I was so engrossed with them.
You are to blame for me still being awake this morning at 5am. But I am so GLAD I was!!
This ship makes sense to me, it looks and seems really natural, something that could/should/would become canon somehow.
Gah, look what you've done to me, I haven't been on a Whedon kick in ages, you've brought back the demons!! But they're GOOD demons!
<3 Wonderful, just wonderful!
no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 04:20 am (UTC)If you decide to watch some Angel season 5 episodes, you may notice that pretty much the only time Spike sounds and behaves like the Spike of the last years of BtVS is when he's with Fred. (The rest of the time, the Mutant Enemy writers tended to regress him back to his shallow, obnoxious persona of BtVS season 4, probably so that his character wouldn't overshadow Angel's -- and in one case, as they admitted later, because they'd never watched any of the BtVS eps and thought that Spike was still basically evil!)
If you'd like to join the Cold Dead Seed message board (the fuzzyshark links) in order to see the Spred discussion thread there, just write "Spike" or some other AtS/BtVS-related word in the Interests box on the membership form, so that the board's owner will know that you're not a spambot. We'd love to have you there, whether it's as a poster or a lurker! :D
no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:08 am (UTC)They must not have watched their own show 'cause I'm pretty positive that it was mentioned in the 2nd eppi of Season 5 that he had a soul.
BTW, just wanted to say that I loved your eassay and your story In Dreams.
I also thought it was so mean of Mutant Enemy to get us all worked up with Spread potential (HellBound) and then leave us hanging. Shame on them.
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:29 am (UTC)They must not have watched their own show 'cause I'm pretty positive that it was mentioned in the 2nd eppi of Season 5 that he had a soul.
It was the writing team of Craft and Fain, scripting the episode "Unleashed" -- so many fans contacted Mutant Enemy with protests about Spike's negative characterization in it that C & F soon afterward explained in an interview that they'd never actually watched a Spike BtVS episode -- that the only time they'd ever seen Spike was in the AtS season 1 episode "In the Dark." They knew that Spike now had a soul, but they assumed that his personality was still like that of "In the Dark." They said that when they realized their error, thanks to fans pointing it out, they made plans to watch BtVS seasons 5-7 to get a more accurate grasp on the character.
I guess sometimes they just gotta learn the hard way. ;)
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Date: 2009-07-15 01:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-16 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-16 03:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-16 03:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 02:22 pm (UTC)I have always had a thing for Spike/Fred. Loved the friendship that developed between them and i very much lament the fact that any burgeoning romantic relationship was washed aside for the Wesley/Fred thing.
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Date: 2009-07-16 03:33 am (UTC)*it tasted like tacos and bloomin' onions
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Date: 2009-07-21 01:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-21 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-23 06:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-24 02:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-24 01:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-29 03:50 am (UTC)Unfortunately, I've just about lost any hope that we'll ever get to see Fred again. BL is adamant that she stay dead, and so many posters have urged IDW to prevent her from ever returning, and the two new writers haven't mentioned that there's any canon characters in their story besides Connor. Kelley Armstrong told me that she wanted to bring Fred back, but that IDW wouldn't let her. I'd give the world to be as lucky as Buffy fans...their beloved character is still alive, and they'll always get to see her.
after seeing those banners and videos, I have to admit that they're very aesthetically pleasing (which had previously gone over my head, due to the fact that James didn't look his best in Season 5 of Angel).
Isn't that the truth! His lighting and makeup were so much better in BtVS, which is why I used a photo of him from that show in my banner instead of an AtS photo. (In the BtVS photo he's also wearing the attractive original leather duster, not that ugly, ill-fitting rubber one they sewed him into on Angel.) ;)
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Date: 2009-09-11 03:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 04:18 am (UTC)