Still There: Uryuu has a Thang for Hime
Feb. 13th, 2007 09:09 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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ship_manifestoStill There: Uryuu has a Thang for Hime
Pairing: Ishida Uryuu/Inoue Orihime
Fandom: Bleach
Title: Still There: Uryuu has a Thang for Hime
Author: debbiechan
Personal Website: debbiechan.com
Happy Valentine’s Day everyone and thanks mods for allowing freeform fun. This essay looks at some IshiHime moments in the Bleach manga and focuses on Ishida Uryuu’s feelings towards Inoue Orihime. When I wrote my previous shipper manifesto about this couple, I had no idea of the depths of shipper dissension among fans of various couples in Bleach. I hope that this follow-up won’t annoy anyone: it scarcely mentions any Bleach characters but Ishida and Orihime. While predicting the course of the story is part of the fun of serial manga and although writing opinions (even those that annoy people) are a shipper’s right, let us on Valentine’s Day celebrate Dork Love.
All translations are by M7. I prefer the Ju-Ni translations of the manga but Ju-Ni didn’t translate early volumes. Specific chapter assignations aren’t given to pictures and text this go-round because I …got lazy.
So now to the Dork love overview in which Ishida the bespectacled, socially awkward handicrafts master (as well as steely-eyed fighter and expert archer) deals with a beautiful girl whose intelligence and quirkiness match his own
Do we really have a Valentine’s Day story here? All Bleach fans know that Orihime doesn’t think of Ishida in that way. To date in the manga, she considers him a good friend and not a potential love-mate. Ishida, some fans claim, reciprocates those feelings exactly and that this relationship is just a strong friendship. Others see Ishida in the throes of an obvious crush. Naturally, I’m with the latter group, and I see Ishida Uryuu’s feelings for Inoue Orihime as a wonderful expression of love. Yes, he is her friend but he holds her concerns and her safety above all others in a selfless, cherishing way. And I think that his romantic and/or sexual feelings for her are plain too.
So, how about that hard-to-read Quincy boy? Right before our first glimpse of the couple, Orihime claims that they don’t know each other at all, but then she reads Ishida very well. She says that Ishida is “a nice guy” even though he appears rude.
Orihime says she isn't close to Ishida at all
but she seems to understand him well at the beginning of the manga
as well as at the end of the Soul Society arc.
Orihime has Ishida’s number. She knows that he does the opposite of what he says and doesn’t reveal his true feelings. Such are the ways of angsty anti-heroes, but thanks to internal monologue (Ishida has more than any other character) and behavior over words, we know that Ishida’s feelings for Orihime begin positively and only increase in intensity throughout the course of the manga. He never says flat out, of course, that he’s in love with her, but as the story progresses, it appears that Kubo-san throws readers some powerful hints.
The first hints are benign.
Early in the manga, even though he appears rude to others, he treats Orihime kindly and in one scene, when Orihime and others ask Ishida to join them in the rescue of Rukia, Ishida brushes them off. Then later, in a thought bubble, he apologizes to Orihime (not to Chad or Yoruichi, the others requesting his help).
Likewise, as Ishida seems to value and respect Orihime, she expects the best of him. When Chad suggests that he won’t show up for the rescue, Orihime throws Chad an outraged look and insists that Ishida will.
Then Ishida and Orihime are partnered in Soul Society, and here is where the relationship is revealed to be shipper-irresistible. Kubo-san spends a great deal of panel time addressing how well the two work together and he throws Orihime in Ishida’s arms for good measure as well. As I noted in my previous ship manifesto, there are nine panels alone in the Soul Society arc where Ishida has his arm protectively over Orihime. He rescues her from death a minimum of three times. His large hands hover over her form, and Kubo singles them out or draws them prominently. Then, at the point where Orihime and Ishida separate and Ishida has his final terrible battle with Mayuri, Ishida recalls his grandfather telling him that one day he will know what he wants to protect. Given that Ishida has been shown protecting Orihime rather obsessively and often in the Soul Society arc, one has to wonder …can you say foreshadowing?
He's got her in his arms here and Kubo-san draws attention to his hand.
Ishida is still holding his arms over her even after her shield has gone up to protect them both from an explosion.
He not only protects her from sword-wielding opponents. Ishida protects Orihime from lecherous advances as well.
This guy looks too friendly.
And Ishida steps in to discourage him.
As for sexual tension, it’s there on Ishida’s part.
I’m always amused when fans say that Ishida sets off their “gaydar” simply because he’s sensitive, fashion-conscious, and sews. I like to say that Ishida is a false positive on their gaydar and that the heterosexual undertones of the Soul Society arc are plain. Orihime may think of Ishida as a friend, but he’s clearly flustered by her beauty.
When he saves her the first time and she thanks him, he goes from cold-eyed destroyer to bashful boy in the blink of an eye. And the next panel shows us what Ishida sees--Orihime in all her long-legged loveliness.
In one of the manga’s funniest scenes, Ishida’s glasses splinter when Orihime starts to take her clothes off. Would any red-blooded adolescent boy have stopped the strip show? Not a decent boy and not Ishida. Although obviously discombobulated, he tries to save the situation and cries at Orihime to stop. He’s rewarded with his own changing room, and while Orihime hums outside it, Ishida wonders, “Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around?”
Ishida gets an eyefull.
But he's modest and gentlemanly in the later hours.
The blanket partition shown between Ishida and Orihime during sleeping hours reminds me of the old movie It Happened One Night. If Ishida were just one of the girlfriends, he wouldn’t feel the need to set his physical presence this far from Orihime. And the irony, of course, is that Ishida and Orihime touch more than any other couple in the manga--by either intent or accident.
Some unintentional touching: PONK!
It's too intentional here: Ishida's already rescued her but he doesn't let go.
Ishida’s analytical character and though bubbles show us that he understands Orihime better the more time they spend together. Some may claim that Ishida’s assessments of Orihime are cool and detached, but just look at his face in the third panel. That’s a face of concern and compassion.
Orihime is never far from Ishida’s thoughts. He thinks of her before he battles Mayuri and he thinks of her as he stumbles away from that battle. He worries about the others, yes, but his first thought bubbles are about Orihime.
Before the Mayuri battle.
And after it.
Ishida survives, as is usually the case with main characters in a shounen, and he’s in the Fourth Division medical facility, luck so has it that Orihime finds her way there. Ishida is the first of his cellmates to notice that she is riding on Kenpachi’s back. Look at his little thrill of recognition.
Even though Ishida has lost his powers and there are more critical issues at stake during the Soul Society arc, Ishida’s primary concern always seems to be Orihime. His concern for her at battleside when Byakuya fights Ichigo is spoken on every page. He worries for her emotional well-being; he worries for her physical well-being. He has his eyes on her in almost every panel. There are three other male friends at the scene, but they aren’t at all looking after Orihime. Ishida tries in vain to get Orihime to leave their proximity to the battle.
At the conclusion of the Soul Society arc, Kubo-san gives us one notable hint of a possible Ishida/Orihime relationship to come. Ishida sews Orihime a new shirt and is flattered beyond flattered that she likes it (“Re-Really?”). Meanwhile, Orihime notices that the dress he sewed for Rukia is nicer and she immediately concludes that Ishida has a crush on Rukia. The side panel reads “way off.” And later, when Orihime shoves the dress into Rukia’s hands, the fervor, blush, and seriousness on her face as she says “take very good care of that” shows that Orihime doesn’t want Ishida’s feelings hurt. Some may read a twinge of jealousy or over-protectiveness.
Ishida is so pleased that Orihime complimented him (she doesn't look that thrilled about the shirt, though).
Rukia's dress is prettier therefore...OMG!
Do I detect a little bit of passionate feeling here on Orihime's part?
It’s said that shippers read too much into facial expressions and build sandcastles out of imagined subtext. That may be true, but in a form like manga where both text and pictures carry equal weight, the speech bubbles only tell half of the story. Kubo-san, like other manga-ka, tells us about his characters with the mere turn this way or that of a pencil mark. Below are some of Ishida’s faces when he’s thinking about or standing before Orihime.
And then we return to Earth and see very little of Ishida while he trains with his father. But behold the look at Ishida’s face when he finds out that Orihime has been kidnapped by the Arrancar.
As one person commenting on my last manifesto noted, the only reason that Ishida goes to Hueco Mundo is to save Inoue Orihime. He defies his father, to whom he made a vow never to associate with Shinigami and their allies again. He never explains why he broke this vow, but when one Arrancar asks why a Quincy is helping a Shinigami, Ishida looks furious and refuses to answer.
I think it’s because (chants) he loves her, he loves her. ^__^
In my previous manifesto, I stated my belief that Orihime may one day turn around and discover that Ishida was “there all along.” The perfect compliment to her personality and someone who truly cares for her. At this writing, it’s been volumes since we’ve seen Orihime and Ishida interact, but I suspect that their chemistry will still be there when we see them again.
Who knows exactly what will happen next, but Orihime is being held prisoner and Ishida et al are on their way. I find it amusing and maybe significant that Kubo Tite, an artist so concerned with design and fashion that he named characters after designers and made one of his Bleach main characters a sewing expert, has Ishida and Orihime dressed in matching clothes in this arc.
Orihime all in white like a princess waiting to be rescued.
Could be a coincidence but why a cross on her bosom, eh?
I, for one, am cheering for Ishida to save the girl in this arc. It may be that all Ishida will do is rescue Orihime the way Ichigo rescued Rukia in the previous arc, and the naysayers will insist on there being nothing romantic here as they claim there was nothing romantic between Ichigo and Rukia. But in my book, saving the fair maiden always meant romance--in its two primary definitions. Romance in the adventure and chivalry sense and romance in the “look into my eyes and read my feelings for you” sense.
I’d like to see more hints of an eventual true pairing. The manga may have years to go and many things could happen. Kubo-san has paid too much attention to the Ishida and Orihime relationship to drop this stitch and not take it up later. After his miserable defeat in the Soul Society arc, the verbal abuse from his father, and his segregation from the first friends he may have ever made, Ishida deserves a little happiness don’t you think? And Orihime deserves him. He’s a great guy.
Pairing: Ishida Uryuu/Inoue Orihime
Fandom: Bleach
Title: Still There: Uryuu has a Thang for Hime
Author: debbiechan
Personal Website: debbiechan.com
Happy Valentine’s Day everyone and thanks mods for allowing freeform fun. This essay looks at some IshiHime moments in the Bleach manga and focuses on Ishida Uryuu’s feelings towards Inoue Orihime. When I wrote my previous shipper manifesto about this couple, I had no idea of the depths of shipper dissension among fans of various couples in Bleach. I hope that this follow-up won’t annoy anyone: it scarcely mentions any Bleach characters but Ishida and Orihime. While predicting the course of the story is part of the fun of serial manga and although writing opinions (even those that annoy people) are a shipper’s right, let us on Valentine’s Day celebrate Dork Love.
All translations are by M7. I prefer the Ju-Ni translations of the manga but Ju-Ni didn’t translate early volumes. Specific chapter assignations aren’t given to pictures and text this go-round because I …got lazy.
So now to the Dork love overview in which Ishida the bespectacled, socially awkward handicrafts master (as well as steely-eyed fighter and expert archer) deals with a beautiful girl whose intelligence and quirkiness match his own
Do we really have a Valentine’s Day story here? All Bleach fans know that Orihime doesn’t think of Ishida in that way. To date in the manga, she considers him a good friend and not a potential love-mate. Ishida, some fans claim, reciprocates those feelings exactly and that this relationship is just a strong friendship. Others see Ishida in the throes of an obvious crush. Naturally, I’m with the latter group, and I see Ishida Uryuu’s feelings for Inoue Orihime as a wonderful expression of love. Yes, he is her friend but he holds her concerns and her safety above all others in a selfless, cherishing way. And I think that his romantic and/or sexual feelings for her are plain too.
So, how about that hard-to-read Quincy boy? Right before our first glimpse of the couple, Orihime claims that they don’t know each other at all, but then she reads Ishida very well. She says that Ishida is “a nice guy” even though he appears rude.
Orihime says she isn't close to Ishida at all
but she seems to understand him well at the beginning of the manga
as well as at the end of the Soul Society arc.
Orihime has Ishida’s number. She knows that he does the opposite of what he says and doesn’t reveal his true feelings. Such are the ways of angsty anti-heroes, but thanks to internal monologue (Ishida has more than any other character) and behavior over words, we know that Ishida’s feelings for Orihime begin positively and only increase in intensity throughout the course of the manga. He never says flat out, of course, that he’s in love with her, but as the story progresses, it appears that Kubo-san throws readers some powerful hints.
The first hints are benign.
Early in the manga, even though he appears rude to others, he treats Orihime kindly and in one scene, when Orihime and others ask Ishida to join them in the rescue of Rukia, Ishida brushes them off. Then later, in a thought bubble, he apologizes to Orihime (not to Chad or Yoruichi, the others requesting his help).
Likewise, as Ishida seems to value and respect Orihime, she expects the best of him. When Chad suggests that he won’t show up for the rescue, Orihime throws Chad an outraged look and insists that Ishida will.
Then Ishida and Orihime are partnered in Soul Society, and here is where the relationship is revealed to be shipper-irresistible. Kubo-san spends a great deal of panel time addressing how well the two work together and he throws Orihime in Ishida’s arms for good measure as well. As I noted in my previous ship manifesto, there are nine panels alone in the Soul Society arc where Ishida has his arm protectively over Orihime. He rescues her from death a minimum of three times. His large hands hover over her form, and Kubo singles them out or draws them prominently. Then, at the point where Orihime and Ishida separate and Ishida has his final terrible battle with Mayuri, Ishida recalls his grandfather telling him that one day he will know what he wants to protect. Given that Ishida has been shown protecting Orihime rather obsessively and often in the Soul Society arc, one has to wonder …can you say foreshadowing?
He's got her in his arms here and Kubo-san draws attention to his hand.
Ishida is still holding his arms over her even after her shield has gone up to protect them both from an explosion.
He not only protects her from sword-wielding opponents. Ishida protects Orihime from lecherous advances as well.
This guy looks too friendly.
And Ishida steps in to discourage him.
As for sexual tension, it’s there on Ishida’s part.
I’m always amused when fans say that Ishida sets off their “gaydar” simply because he’s sensitive, fashion-conscious, and sews. I like to say that Ishida is a false positive on their gaydar and that the heterosexual undertones of the Soul Society arc are plain. Orihime may think of Ishida as a friend, but he’s clearly flustered by her beauty.
When he saves her the first time and she thanks him, he goes from cold-eyed destroyer to bashful boy in the blink of an eye. And the next panel shows us what Ishida sees--Orihime in all her long-legged loveliness.
In one of the manga’s funniest scenes, Ishida’s glasses splinter when Orihime starts to take her clothes off. Would any red-blooded adolescent boy have stopped the strip show? Not a decent boy and not Ishida. Although obviously discombobulated, he tries to save the situation and cries at Orihime to stop. He’s rewarded with his own changing room, and while Orihime hums outside it, Ishida wonders, “Isn’t it supposed to be the other way around?”
Ishida gets an eyefull.
But he's modest and gentlemanly in the later hours.
The blanket partition shown between Ishida and Orihime during sleeping hours reminds me of the old movie It Happened One Night. If Ishida were just one of the girlfriends, he wouldn’t feel the need to set his physical presence this far from Orihime. And the irony, of course, is that Ishida and Orihime touch more than any other couple in the manga--by either intent or accident.
Some unintentional touching: PONK!
It's too intentional here: Ishida's already rescued her but he doesn't let go.
Ishida’s analytical character and though bubbles show us that he understands Orihime better the more time they spend together. Some may claim that Ishida’s assessments of Orihime are cool and detached, but just look at his face in the third panel. That’s a face of concern and compassion.
Orihime is never far from Ishida’s thoughts. He thinks of her before he battles Mayuri and he thinks of her as he stumbles away from that battle. He worries about the others, yes, but his first thought bubbles are about Orihime.
Before the Mayuri battle.
And after it.
Ishida survives, as is usually the case with main characters in a shounen, and he’s in the Fourth Division medical facility, luck so has it that Orihime finds her way there. Ishida is the first of his cellmates to notice that she is riding on Kenpachi’s back. Look at his little thrill of recognition.
Even though Ishida has lost his powers and there are more critical issues at stake during the Soul Society arc, Ishida’s primary concern always seems to be Orihime. His concern for her at battleside when Byakuya fights Ichigo is spoken on every page. He worries for her emotional well-being; he worries for her physical well-being. He has his eyes on her in almost every panel. There are three other male friends at the scene, but they aren’t at all looking after Orihime. Ishida tries in vain to get Orihime to leave their proximity to the battle.
At the conclusion of the Soul Society arc, Kubo-san gives us one notable hint of a possible Ishida/Orihime relationship to come. Ishida sews Orihime a new shirt and is flattered beyond flattered that she likes it (“Re-Really?”). Meanwhile, Orihime notices that the dress he sewed for Rukia is nicer and she immediately concludes that Ishida has a crush on Rukia. The side panel reads “way off.” And later, when Orihime shoves the dress into Rukia’s hands, the fervor, blush, and seriousness on her face as she says “take very good care of that” shows that Orihime doesn’t want Ishida’s feelings hurt. Some may read a twinge of jealousy or over-protectiveness.
Ishida is so pleased that Orihime complimented him (she doesn't look that thrilled about the shirt, though).
Rukia's dress is prettier therefore...OMG!
Do I detect a little bit of passionate feeling here on Orihime's part?
It’s said that shippers read too much into facial expressions and build sandcastles out of imagined subtext. That may be true, but in a form like manga where both text and pictures carry equal weight, the speech bubbles only tell half of the story. Kubo-san, like other manga-ka, tells us about his characters with the mere turn this way or that of a pencil mark. Below are some of Ishida’s faces when he’s thinking about or standing before Orihime.
And then we return to Earth and see very little of Ishida while he trains with his father. But behold the look at Ishida’s face when he finds out that Orihime has been kidnapped by the Arrancar.
As one person commenting on my last manifesto noted, the only reason that Ishida goes to Hueco Mundo is to save Inoue Orihime. He defies his father, to whom he made a vow never to associate with Shinigami and their allies again. He never explains why he broke this vow, but when one Arrancar asks why a Quincy is helping a Shinigami, Ishida looks furious and refuses to answer.
I think it’s because (chants) he loves her, he loves her. ^__^
In my previous manifesto, I stated my belief that Orihime may one day turn around and discover that Ishida was “there all along.” The perfect compliment to her personality and someone who truly cares for her. At this writing, it’s been volumes since we’ve seen Orihime and Ishida interact, but I suspect that their chemistry will still be there when we see them again.
Who knows exactly what will happen next, but Orihime is being held prisoner and Ishida et al are on their way. I find it amusing and maybe significant that Kubo Tite, an artist so concerned with design and fashion that he named characters after designers and made one of his Bleach main characters a sewing expert, has Ishida and Orihime dressed in matching clothes in this arc.
Orihime all in white like a princess waiting to be rescued.
Could be a coincidence but why a cross on her bosom, eh?
I, for one, am cheering for Ishida to save the girl in this arc. It may be that all Ishida will do is rescue Orihime the way Ichigo rescued Rukia in the previous arc, and the naysayers will insist on there being nothing romantic here as they claim there was nothing romantic between Ichigo and Rukia. But in my book, saving the fair maiden always meant romance--in its two primary definitions. Romance in the adventure and chivalry sense and romance in the “look into my eyes and read my feelings for you” sense.
I’d like to see more hints of an eventual true pairing. The manga may have years to go and many things could happen. Kubo-san has paid too much attention to the Ishida and Orihime relationship to drop this stitch and not take it up later. After his miserable defeat in the Soul Society arc, the verbal abuse from his father, and his segregation from the first friends he may have ever made, Ishida deserves a little happiness don’t you think? And Orihime deserves him. He’s a great guy.
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no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 04:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-17 09:26 pm (UTC)That very well may be true. I can totally see Ishida as the self-sacrificing noble sort of guy. At this point, he really wants Orihime to be happy--and as we saw in the SS arc, that meant he wanted Ichigo to stay alive so she wouldn't freak out.
But the guy's had SO much trouble. It would be too bleak for a shounen to have Ishida unpaired at the manga's end and the Quincy line dying with him.
I don't see anyone else he could be paired with at this time, given how much time Kubo has invested in his feelings for Orihime. I like Ishida/Nemu fic (you know that ^__^) but I don't see that couple happening--again, too dark.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-18 01:27 am (UTC)In that sense, "secondary" pairings--like Ishida-Nemu and Hitsugaya-Matsumoto (many would argue this was a primary pairing) are not bad; takes the end of one attachment for another to start. Not to diminish your hopes, but happy couples in Bleach are simply scarce.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 05:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:39 pm (UTC)It's his theme song "Thanks for the Memories."
Anyway, just found a close up of Hime with what looks like a Quincy cross on her dress design. Putting it up soon.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:50 pm (UTC)Ohh, can't wait. I didn't even know it was there!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:56 pm (UTC)There now.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-16 12:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-17 09:27 pm (UTC)Thank you. I can't believe I wrote so many versions of the last one and then this one came out in a half hour (took longer to post the pics that to write it)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 06:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:13 pm (UTC)Ach, there always something! I was concentrating on Ishida moments and forgot that one.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:14 pm (UTC)I had that one in my files--he's so "wow, you're awesome, girl" in that pic! XD
I think I left it out because I didn't have room on the page but thanks for posting it. I love it too.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 05:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:18 pm (UTC)Yes they are! Can't wait until they see one another again!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 06:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:15 pm (UTC)They must ! They must meet up! It's been so long since they interacted!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 11:36 pm (UTC)~Syn
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:18 pm (UTC)Thanks! I tried to go the whole essay without mentioning Rukia but that didn't happen--Ichigo was impossible--but yeah, this was a all-about-the-cuteness essay.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 04:37 am (UTC)Ugh...back to science.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:16 pm (UTC)IshiHime love never goes away. It's chock full of sugar calories! One could feed off the sweetness forever....
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 07:43 am (UTC)<3 <3
This totally shows that IshiHime are meant to be.
It's a fairytale
waiting to happenthat's already begun~ Kyaaaah *swoons*no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 11:17 pm (UTC)YEY! And have you noticed she's wearing what suspiciously resembles a Quincy cross at her neck in this arc? I need to get a good pic of that. Maybe 262 has one....
Yep. Meant to be. *__*
1.. 2... 3...horray for Ishihime!!!
Date: 2007-02-16 01:33 am (UTC)wow! I'm rooting for Ishida to save Orihime! Go Ishida Go!!! ^_^
they are meant to be! ^_^
Re: 1.. 2... 3...horray for Ishihime!!!
Date: 2007-02-17 09:12 pm (UTC)*waves poms poms*
I grow more optimistic with each new chapter---esp since the return of you-know-who which kills the old-you-know-what-theory! ~_^
no subject
Date: 2007-02-17 11:24 am (UTC)(Also, next time I want to see pretty pretty IshiHime manga panels I'll come here! Mwhahaha! KT just does so lovely art of the two of them. ♥)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-17 09:09 pm (UTC)There's always room at the IshiHime party!
KT does draw them both so beautifully lately--I can't bear the anime sometimes because Ishida and Ichigo have horsefaces and aren't as beautiful as in the manga. Hime looks ok in the anime.
and thanks!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-17 10:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-07 02:02 am (UTC)Kia, you know, thanks to LJ's evil email update delivery system, I never got this response!
I am SO rooting for Ishida. And I tell you, the more and more evidence I gather and the more I look at things--he's going to win. He really is.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-18 12:13 am (UTC)Going into my memories as well! :D
no subject
Date: 2007-04-07 02:03 am (UTC)Oh I didn't get this post when it was delivered, but thank you! IshiHime could use some love know--the two havent interacted for months in the manga and people seem to have forgotten them!
no subject
Date: 2007-04-06 11:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-07 02:01 am (UTC)GOOOOOOO ISHIDA! Hey he's still in the running. And the manga is looking bad for every one else but maybe, just maybe he'll get the spotlight soon.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-07 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 04:06 am (UTC)Actually, I feel several of the first panels you used demonstrated a tension between Ichigo and Ishida, with Orihime inquiring about what happened between them (their relationship to one another), detailing how he's in handicraft club as her explanation for knowing who he is. Also, to be fair, the dork and effeminate reactions Uryuu is characterized with the majority of the time are absent from much of the characterization in these panels. The "proud Quincy moments" tend to be where Uryuu steps up to the plate to protect his friends, but they are actually few and far between in relationship to his typified behavioral patterns. In terms of arguing the Quincy mark, it appears even more frequently on Ichigo's apparel (i.e. his bedspread and Kon's head).
Given the near loner status (in terms of family members or housing situation) many of the other characters share, I think his missing mother might be revealed to have an impact on why he feels the need to protect women and children (whom often stand for society when it is "defenseless," which as a woman I still disagree with. :-p). I hope Bleach continues to show, however, that the woman does not need to be saved by the strapping young man. Personally, I love that they turn the idea of "damsel in distress" on its head, with Uryuu beginning the Soul Society arc and continuing throughout as a damsel construct in his own right (i.e. the tossed over the shoulder moment, Chad's epic reaching as he fell backward and later being awarded his own changing room).
Sorry for leaving such a long message and as always feel free to disregard it if you so choose. I just felt I wasn't being true to my side of the reading if I didn't comment in at least a partial capacity. Thanks again! :)
no subject
Date: 2007-04-21 01:57 pm (UTC)Thank you for reading and for this very nice, thoughtful response!
I see more basis for IchiIshi in the manga than a lot of other yaoi pairings, but I believe (even though I love to write & read IchiIshi)that a lot of what people interpret as "gay" in Ishida's character has a precedent in old time Chinese and Japanese literature and today in bishounen representations in manga and anime. A bishie is sometimes gay, sometimes not--his character breaks gender molds.
From Wikipaedia:
These are often depicted with very strong martial arts abilities, sports talent, high intelligence, or comedic flair, traits that are usually assigned to the hero/protagonist. In some cases bishōnen are depicted with either outright homosexual content or some level of sexual ambiguity in their relationships and sexual identity, though most are depicted as exclusively heterosexual.
From a structuralist's POV that takes the manga-ka's intent and traditions of the form into consideration when interpreting the story, I see Ishida as not gay. Kubo once said that he identified with Ishida more than anyone in Bleach. Kubo has claimed to be heterosexual (and had people going ??? at inferences that he is XD). Kubo has said that he doesn't like BL manga (damn but he loves to throw in yuri references all over his own manga, doesn't he?) I take these things into consideration when looking at Ishida's character.
Now the ANIME is another story. It fanservices everywhere and throws what one friend of mine who ships IchiIshi calls "a fresh minty breath of gayness" all over the place. The cross covers on Ichigo's bed, for example, exist only in the anime. But even so, the colorless cross (not blue, not Quincy-ish) is a common design marker in lots of Japanese clothes (the fascination with JudeoChristianity is behind Ishida's whole priest-wear, imv). I swear, though, the tensions between Ichi and Ishi in the manga are pure cartoon sex.
The protecting business is impt to Ishida's character if only from the foretelling remark from Souken: "One day you will know what you want to protect." What we SEE Ishida protecting wildly is any damsel in distress. Ishida has chivalry issues about protecting women. Ichigo wants to protect mountains of people, whatever their gender. Interestingly enough, I think its Ishida who will learn that Orihime can defend herself--so far he seems particularly sensitive to her motives and abilities. This sensitivity to her hasn't been displayed much by any other character except Tatsuki (and Tatsuki's attitude towards Orihime is patronizing as well--even as it skirts the erotic).
IchiIshi is a vast, lively ship and I "get it" but to me, "getting it" isn't the point of shipping in any way--poetic liscence runs free. I happen to ship Kenpachi/Unohana (yes, I know... but I do ^^) on no canon evidence and Aizen/Ulquiorra on slight (but arguably there!) evidence.
These manifesto thingies celebrate ships for the most part and when we write the things, we're asked to tell *why* we love the ship. Being a little on the analytical side, I tend to ship some couples because I see them as reasonable or likely to occur in the story. Not very postmodern of me. I do believe we'll see some IshiHime in the manga soon.
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Date: 2007-04-21 05:42 pm (UTC)Actually, I would argue that those gay characteristics stem from the extensive history of flourishing homosexuality under samurai rule. I actually did my Honors research in how samurai traditions and practices of homosexuality influence current depictions of BL in modern anime and manga. :)
I see a lot of Kubo in Uryuu, but I have never heard of Kubo referencing himself as heterosexual nor as disliking BL ever, and in fact, every time I read an interview or discussion, he seemed to be leaning more toward homosexual. Where had you heard that? I have read a fair amount of interviews, looked extensively for any discussion of Kubo being heterosexual or involved with a woman, and the way he portrays his characters leads me to think very differently. In my personal opinion, there is no way his character Yumichika could be interpreted as anything but a BL character and I consider Bleach to be literally teeming with BL from the very beginning. Even if Kubo had said something to that affect, though I still don't trust many of the sources that appear (Wikipedia least of all), whereas I have previously watched Kishimoto's words be twisted and taken out of context, I have witnessed plenty of comments of that caliber made when the person saying them was in a denial of sorts. If he had said those things, there was intense reason for speculation. Given what I've read, there's more than speculation. XD
I know what you mean--I feel that way about some pairings as well, in that I see where they come from even if they don't float my boat, but I still can't see Orihime and Uryuu as more than a platonic friendship. All of the caring and concern makes for a beautiful friendship, but I find a very different variety of concern is shown for Ichigo, one that tends to illicit more intense and often barely disguised tender moments. ^__~ Actually, he says he still hasn't discovered what he wants to protect after he has protected Orihime, so I find a more powerful argument that he wants to stand by Ichigo's side and protect him, somewhat akin to Chad. I actually put Tatsuki with Orihime because I think it makes more sense than any of the couplings, particularly Tatsuki's combination of what Orihime needs and what she wants (Tatsuki is a lot like Ichigo).
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Date: 2007-04-21 06:00 pm (UTC)Oh yes, I've read a lot about the Samurai beautiful yummy boy toy tradition as well. I've used to to argue for the implicit pedophelia in a lot of anime and manga that some of my friends insisted couldn't be there.
True, no source I can quote you for the Kubo interviews. I've read a few (not in original Japanese--can't read that), but I've mostly seen quotes in this or that forum--the famous comments about how Kubo said he meant Gin to be creepy but all the girls went ga-ga and Kubo wished he were Gin. XD Others, not substantiated in any way and nothing I would present to a thesis committee!
In terms of the protection issue, I think there's a whole lot of protecting going on--and there needs to be less. More friendship and teamwork is necessary! Ichigo doubts his friends (look how he hurt Chad and Tatsuki) and alienates them because he believes that ALL the responsibility for saving the world is on his shoulders. Ishida's chivalry fetish needs to be curbed--and I'm waiting for the Ryuuken backstory to get a closer view of that. Orihime needs to be independent of being constantly saved by Sora, Tatsuki, Ichigo--her current identity crisis has to do, I believe, with being so dependent (and as in shoujo and shounen, she is a young person unaware of her true potential).
The whole 11th division "fight alone" credo always struck me as nonsense, and I'm wondering if Renji, in chapter 273, is going to allow Ishida to team up with him against Zael Apollo. This would be great growth for both characters--the alienated Ishida and the overconfident Renji--and it would serve the old shounen trope of "let's work with one another instead of against one another."
Also... there will be lots of RenIshi fics to come out of such a development ( heh heh ....I wrote mine last year... I saw RenIshi potential before I saw IchiIshi... or maybe the aesthetics of the classic seme/uke appealed to me more)
You know what? You're a really open-minded yaoi fangirl. We have a few "bi" readers and writers at my comm (
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Date: 2007-04-21 06:33 pm (UTC)Haha I totally agree! They need to stop the protection crusades and work together more often--respect what one another can do and support them rather than constantly jump in the way. XD I definitely agree that Orihime needs
to take that step out of those wanting so desperately to protect here, and I think she was well on her way in wanting to train herself so that Ichigo wouldn't need to protect her. :)
Hmm, you know I'm wondering that as well. We didn't get to see much of Renji's reaction to him crashing through the wall and it would be nice to see those two work together whereas they are the only two in the position to really do so at the moment (unless Nell and Ichigo are able to work together in the hurt n' heal combination as they did at the beginning). :D
*nods* RenIshi does seem to have some potential great seme-uke codes embedded in it--I just saw a gorgeous pictures of the two of them actually and huzzah for using fandom passion for papers! *high fives* Haha, yep, I can be pretty open-minded even when someone doesn't necessarily appeal to me. I fully believe everyone should be able to enjoy whatever they want (I have some het couplings I adore in other fandoms, as well as yuri that I think makes sense, but my real love lies in BL). Though I prefer it when people with guilty ships don't try to push it on me as canon (i.e. like arguing Zetsu/Ino in Naruto or something) and while I tend to stick almost uniformly with couple's with a lot of subtext and opportunities, I do have a soft spot for Chad/Nova because while it was a filler character which makes it immediately guilty, I felt it made a lot of sense given that Nova rang true to some other Bleach personas. XD
I'll definitely try to pop by (I'm trying to return to LJ land, but final exams are fast approaching, AIEEE!). Thanks for the invite! ^o^
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Date: 2007-11-22 09:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-11-22 10:40 pm (UTC)Haha, thanks. I'm planning to incorporate the color spread into my NEXT IshiHime manifesto. I'm just a little impatient for Kubo to get a move-on with the next IshiHime interaction in the manga.....
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Date: 2009-08-04 07:13 am (UTC)Ok, so during the SS arc I did ship IshiHime, but once the HM arc came about, I pretty much dug UlquiHime more. The scenes with IshiHime seem very solid, though. Everything in this manifesto doesn't seem skewed. Both IshiHime and UlquiHime have evidence to support them, so this isn't cracky like IchiHime, but the only issue I have with IshiHime is that I don't see it lasting.
The shippy scenes with them are pretty innocent. Ishida recognizes that Orihime is more complex than she appears, but they don't discuss topics like Orihime does with Ulquiorra. With IshiHime, it's very much like a young love romance. If they do get together, I think they'd start out as romantic, but in the end they'd find they work better as friends. Not to say UlquiHime is 100% romantic, although I think they have a lot of potential to be, but IshiHime just don't strike me as a couple that have the same kind of understanding as a couple like UlquiHime or even IchiRuki.
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Date: 2009-08-04 11:53 am (UTC)Thanks for commenting! I appreciate it when people disagree with me politely! It's fun for me!
With IshiHime, it's very much like a young love romance.
TOTALLY agree with you there. And that's one of the reasons I think they're so compatible. They're both very sweet and innocent. I like UlquiHime too--it's a darker pairing though and definitely more mature--it seems a little heavier than what Orihime should handle so I SUSPECT it may remain unrequited on Ulquiorra's part but I've always seen the tension and I think it would be a great love story if Kubo goes there.
If they do get together, I think they'd start out as romantic, but in the end they'd find they work better as friends.
Here's where I disagree profoundly. They're friends now, and friendship is a great foundation for deep love. Ask me, I know. I married my best friend--a guy who is in many ways like Ishida. <3
the last comment didn't get through
Date: 2009-10-01 08:13 pm (UTC)lol But Srsly you did such an amazing job! You pointed out so many moments and proved so many points! I love this. I adore this pairing and have full faith it WILL happen! I am waiting for it. Great job Debbie-chan!
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Date: 2009-10-07 11:14 pm (UTC)HOW COME I ONLY SAW THIS NAO!?
Date: 2011-11-20 09:40 am (UTC)Inoue probably didn't know she knows much about him at first. Probably 'being close' to her is, well, how close friends bond and hang out and talk about things as a way to stay close. But at that time, they(Ishida and Inoue) probably only bond during club time and a bit during class and don't talk to each other unless they needed something. Yet she knows about him a lot. *squeals*
I really find it amusing how Ishida cares so obsessively over Orihime; he doesn't tell much, but his action and speech bubbles just screams "I LOVE INOUE-SAAAAN!" <333
Great pointing out the intentional touch! *is giggling like crazy*
Now that you have mentioned it, Kubo-sensei really showed a lot of the IshiHime tandem. I hope he keeps it up and gives us a conclusion to their relationship! (MARRIAGE! *is shot*)