While I agree that Griffith was not propositioning Guts for sex during the shower scene at all...what Griffith said to Charlotte and what he really meant, whether he realized it or not, is purely up for speculation. The only things that were made clear about Griffith's character was that Guts had become an obsession to him, and had become more important than his dream. Whether this was as a friend, a comrade, or what have you, it was an intense feeling and it was definitely love. Romantic love? That's up to debate, and most likely it wasn't.
I wouldn't call Guts/Griffith romantically canon, but there are deep elements of their relationship that clearly indicate that Guts was more to Griffith than just a tool.
A few discussions on the matter are here: (as to whether or not Griffith was capable of love and whether or not he loved Guts as a friend or a tool)
There are a few other threads on the matter, of course you have your unintelligent replies of "LOLZ GRIFFITH WAS A FAG"
But honestly, a lot of it is up for speculation and it's a bit hilarious to see some people get so up in arms about it.
We know that Guts loves Casca, and Casca loved both men, though her connections to them (the reality of Guts and the Ideal of Griffith) were different.
We know Griffith could feel guilt for his comrades, and concern, but all in all he had convinced himself to see them as tools.
And we also know from volume 10 and Griffith's ponderings in the dungeon that he had come to realize that Guts was never really in his grasp, Guts made him feel things he was uncomfortable with, and he had overshadowed his dream of the castle.
Griffith had done things for Guts that, while he may have been consciously convinced it was because Guts was a precious tool to him, spoke of friendship and stronger feelings. In fact, the entire point of Griffith's character could be argued to have been a man that was out of reach, that put himself above humanity, but was brought down by human feelings for Guts.
I won't argue whether they were romantic or not, because I believe a reader sees what they want to see if things are not stated clearly. But Griffith saw Guts as more than a tool, he was his friend. Griffith just was a fucked up person and obviously couldn't deal with that.
Guts was the wild card in causality; he has escaped death and was the deciding factor that threw in the domino effect that led to Griffith's inevitable downfall that the Godhand had been prophecizing about. Guts meant something to him as a friend, Griffith didn't break just because "BOOHOO OH NO A REALLY STRONG GUY THAT WORKED FOR ME IS GONE ;___;", you don't cry about that. His dream was already in his grasp, and he ruined it in a desperate form of escapism from his feelings.
Just like he sacrificed everything in a desperate form of escapism from his feelings of worthlessness, weakness and guilt, and his "only you" feelings for Guts.
It most likely was a strong comrade thing. But like I said, I'm not up to debate on whether or not a fictional character is gay.
I do think the manifesto was assuming too much about the sexuality, though. What attracts me about Guts and Griffith's friendship is the intense feelings that seem to contradict everything Griffith has tried to tell himself not to be. And eventually, the deep loathing and hatred Griffith forms for Guts on top of his friendship and caring.
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Date: 2007-09-09 02:02 am (UTC)I wouldn't call Guts/Griffith romantically canon, but there are deep elements of their relationship that clearly indicate that Guts was more to Griffith than just a tool.
A few discussions on the matter are here: (as to whether or not Griffith was capable of love and whether or not he loved Guts as a friend or a tool)
http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=2454.0
http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=4772.0
There are a few other threads on the matter, of course you have your unintelligent replies of "LOLZ GRIFFITH WAS A FAG"
But honestly, a lot of it is up for speculation and it's a bit hilarious to see some people get so up in arms about it.
We know that Guts loves Casca, and Casca loved both men, though her connections to them (the reality of Guts and the Ideal of Griffith) were different.
We know Griffith could feel guilt for his comrades, and concern, but all in all he had convinced himself to see them as tools.
And we also know from volume 10 and Griffith's ponderings in the dungeon that he had come to realize that Guts was never really in his grasp, Guts made him feel things he was uncomfortable with, and he had overshadowed his dream of the castle.
Griffith had done things for Guts that, while he may have been consciously convinced it was because Guts was a precious tool to him, spoke of friendship and stronger feelings. In fact, the entire point of Griffith's character could be argued to have been a man that was out of reach, that put himself above humanity, but was brought down by human feelings for Guts.
I won't argue whether they were romantic or not, because I believe a reader sees what they want to see if things are not stated clearly. But Griffith saw Guts as more than a tool, he was his friend. Griffith just was a fucked up person and obviously couldn't deal with that.
Guts was the wild card in causality; he has escaped death and was the deciding factor that threw in the domino effect that led to Griffith's inevitable downfall that the Godhand had been prophecizing about. Guts meant something to him as a friend, Griffith didn't break just because "BOOHOO OH NO A REALLY STRONG GUY THAT WORKED FOR ME IS GONE ;___;", you don't cry about that. His dream was already in his grasp, and he ruined it in a desperate form of escapism from his feelings.
Just like he sacrificed everything in a desperate form of escapism from his feelings of worthlessness, weakness and guilt, and his "only you" feelings for Guts.
It most likely was a strong comrade thing. But like I said, I'm not up to debate on whether or not a fictional character is gay.
I do think the manifesto was assuming too much about the sexuality, though. What attracts me about Guts and Griffith's friendship is the intense feelings that seem to contradict everything Griffith has tried to tell himself not to be. And eventually, the deep loathing and hatred Griffith forms for Guts on top of his friendship and caring.