I'm glad you brought up Something Blue, because I was thinking of that too.
I'm also a girl who discusses bondage with her mother (not in detail but I'm out about my kink and she knows it, and it comes up occasionally) so that and the general tone of their talk doesn't strike me as so anti-parental as it strikes jedi_penguin. I'm an only child, close to my mom. We talk in many ways more like friends than parent to child (especially since dad was not really an option) and have since I was very young.
Since Giles didn't have a partner to talk to and Buffy couldn't talk to her mom about the most important things in her life (Slaying, Angel, etc.) the situation strikes me as similar, so the dynamic does not strike me as precluding a fatherly relationship.
I also thought it wasn't so much Travers' comment that was telling as Giles' lack of objection to it. If somebody told me I had parental affection towards someone and I didn't, I would argue the point, not look down in what seemed to me to be a tacit admission and say nothing.
I agree that After Giles is fired as Buffy’s Watcher, he loses the last of whatever outward trappings of authority he ever held over her.
But I don't think outward trappings are the point, because Buffy has always flouted or ignored outward authority (witness her relationships with teachers, principals, and the cops). Which is also why I think more is not made of the Riley conflict of interest, though I know it's been discussed because I discussed it -- the threat of bad grades would only have teeth for someone who cared about getting good ones.
What Giles has over Buffy is inward authority -- authority she gives him because he has earned it. I see that being explicitly reaffirmed when she goes to him and tells him she needs him to take her to the next level as a Slayer, and not overturned until season seven after the incident with Wood.
Because that authority (as a mentor, if not a father) is voluntary and not coercive, I wouldn't necessarily see it as incompatible with a sexual relationship, but I would see that as putting Buffy in a submissive role that I can't picture her liking. The Buffy I see definitely likes older men, but she also likes to be in charge of her relationships if anyone is. Any Buffy/Giles story would have to shift the power balance significantly for me to buy it.
All that said, I don't have moral or aesthetic objections to them as a pairing, they just don't bring out the kind of internal conflicts in each other that I like to see in fic. Still, I really enjoyed this glimpse into how they work for those that like them. Thanks!
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-08-30 04:50 pm (UTC)I'm also a girl who discusses bondage with her mother (not in detail but I'm out about my kink and she knows it, and it comes up occasionally) so that and the general tone of their talk doesn't strike me as so anti-parental as it strikes
Since Giles didn't have a partner to talk to and Buffy couldn't talk to her mom about the most important things in her life (Slaying, Angel, etc.) the situation strikes me as similar, so the dynamic does not strike me as precluding a fatherly relationship.
I also thought it wasn't so much Travers' comment that was telling as Giles' lack of objection to it. If somebody told me I had parental affection towards someone and I didn't, I would argue the point, not look down in what seemed to me to be a tacit admission and say nothing.
I agree that After Giles is fired as Buffy’s Watcher, he loses the last of whatever outward trappings of authority he ever held over her.
But I don't think outward trappings are the point, because Buffy has always flouted or ignored outward authority (witness her relationships with teachers, principals, and the cops). Which is also why I think more is not made of the Riley conflict of interest, though I know it's been discussed because I discussed it -- the threat of bad grades would only have teeth for someone who cared about getting good ones.
What Giles has over Buffy is inward authority -- authority she gives him because he has earned it. I see that being explicitly reaffirmed when she goes to him and tells him she needs him to take her to the next level as a Slayer, and not overturned until season seven after the incident with Wood.
Because that authority (as a mentor, if not a father) is voluntary and not coercive, I wouldn't necessarily see it as incompatible with a sexual relationship, but I would see that as putting Buffy in a submissive role that I can't picture her liking. The Buffy I see definitely likes older men, but she also likes to be in charge of her relationships if anyone is. Any Buffy/Giles story would have to shift the power balance significantly for me to buy it.
All that said, I don't have moral or aesthetic objections to them as a pairing, they just don't bring out the kind of internal conflicts in each other that I like to see in fic. Still, I really enjoyed this glimpse into how they work for those that like them. Thanks!