ext_28850 ([identity profile] abby-normal.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] ship_manifesto2005-12-26 07:17 pm

Lord of the Rings -- Frodo/Merry

Title: In Support Of Cousinly Love
Author: [livejournal.com profile] abby_normal (aka Aratlithiel/Daffodil Bolger)
Pairing: Frodo/Merry
Fandom: Lord of the Rings
Spoilers: None that I can think of



The funny thing about what I am going to attempt here is that I realise perfectly well that I will be, in essence, preaching to the choir. The only people who will even venture into this will be those who don't already have their minds narrowed and set; those who won't actually get angry about what I'm going to say. And yes, when you point out the logic in this relationship, as opposed to the lack thereof in others, fans of other pairings really do get angry. I mean actually seriously angry. In fact, I fully expect to get unfriended by a few over it, if any of those who would get angry bother to click on the post to begin with. But here goes anyway.

Years ago, when I read LOTR for the first several dozen times, I was struck by the relationship between Frodo and Merry and, to a lesser degree, that between Frodo and Pippin. Like these guys, I come from a very large family with more cousins than can fit comfortably in any indoor area for any length of time. While I love all of them, there are only one or two I was/am very close to and only one I would drop whatever might happen to be going on in my life for. That’s a very deep love, one that is not and cannot be taken lightly, one that goes beyond familial considerations and even beyond friendship – neither of those are adequate descriptions of the kind of relationship I’m talking about. It’s both and neither: it’s someone knowing your history and you knowing theirs; it’s the shorthand of conversation when you make mention of a family member’s idiosyncrasies and another knows exactly what you’re talking about and can fume or laugh along with you, finish your sentences, share an inside joke and laugh for an hour over something no one else in the world would get, even after a six-hour history and explanation; it’s the invaluable bonus of never having to go through that explanation. It’s the extraordinary comfort of having someone know you – who you are, how you think, what your values are… that if you died tomorrow, this person would be able to describe to the world exactly the kind of person you were, make you live for a few moments behind someone else’s eyes and all through their love for you and their knowledge of you. They know your strengths, your weaknesses, your successes and your failings and you know what sort of reaction to expect from them when confronted with each of these things. And you give all of that back to them without thought -- without even really realising you're doing it -- because it’s become a part of who you are.

So, when I read LOTR and took note of the fact that Merry twigged to the secret of the Ring, knew how Bilbo had pulled his disappearing-act at the Party and then proceeded to watch Frodo for seventeen years and all so that Frodo would not disappear on him as Bilbo had on Frodo, I saw something in that relationship that I think is obvious and all too frequently ignored: Merry, contrary to what many who write him seem to think, is a grownup. His family runs Buckland and, if one has a brain and the ability to extrapolate, one must assume that Merry had many adult responsibilities – both to his family and to his homeland – that were not easy to leave behind, especially for someone who so obviously valued his family and his home. This is a rural, farming community where manual labour is expected, where growing up fast is the only kind there is and where the fortunes of the community depend entirely upon its individual citizens. This is not some happy-go-lucky useless country bumpkin, who thinks, ‘Yippee! Adventure!’ and toddles after Frodo in hopes of dragon’s gold. No. This is a person who carefully watches his cousin for years (seventeen!), keeping an eye out for signs that he might be thinking of going off into danger alone.

And here’s the thing that so many miss: when those signs appeared, Merry recognised them. This is not someone who has a light relationship with his cousin, this is someone who knows Frodo, knows him intimately and can spot the signs that Frodo will be off and interpret them correctly. And Frodo is not an easy person to know! This is not a casual, cousinly relationship – it is deep, loving and intimate. (And when I say ‘intimate’ I am not speaking about slash, so minds out of the gutter for a minute – we’ll probably dip into there eventually. In fact, I know we will.)

Now, the Frodo-Sam relationship is different and Sam knows Frodo, too, but – in my own opinion – not in the same ways and not as well (at least pre-Quest). Sam knows what Frodo needs but not always what he wants; Sam knows when something is wrong but not always what. Sam had to be told by Merry to keep an eye on Frodo. Now, you can extrapolate on that all you want and many have and quite well but the fact remains that Sam did not begin spying on Frodo until Merry asked him to. Did Sam know something was going on before that? Did he have his own suspicions and was maybe already spying before Merry came along and put him to work? Who knows? But the fact is that, in canon, Merry is the impetus behind The Conspiracy and, had it not been for him, Sam might never have been caught spying in the first place and then who knows who would have ended up going along with Frodo? If anyone.

Yet, if an author wants to write Frodo/Merry as anything but a temporary pairing and one in which real love is shared between the two of them, that author must work extra hard to 'prove' the relationship. And even then, most readers will see what they want to see anyway. Personally, the feedback I receive on my Frodo/Merry fic is about half and half: one half of the people who write me about it are pleased with the way the relationship and story evolves and the other half want to know when Frodo is finally going to dump Merry for Sam. What this latter half fail to see is that, in my own personal opinion, if one considers the canon of LOTR as their basis for any pairing, Frodo/Merry is actually the more logical choice.

Here's why:

If you are going to assume any slash relationship within the confines of the text in the first place, the Frodo/Merry relationship is actually the first and most logical choice. (Yes, I know I just said that but it bears repeating):

(1) There is a close relationship that canon itself establishes; not only is Merry included in the list of Frodo's 'special friends' (along with Pippin, Fatty and Folco), but there is an easiness in that relationship, a familiarity between them that speaks to a level of comfort that only long-knowledge can bring. They joke and tease one moment and turn serious the next; Frodo, Merry and Pippin speak to each other with an ease with which they speak to no one else.

(2) There is a very evident love between them exemplified by -- among other things -- Merry's willingness to leave his home and his safety behind in order to try and keep Frodo from danger; Merry knows everything about the Ring that Frodo and Sam do, has not been 'assigned' this task by Gandalf and yet does everything within his power to make sure Frodo doesn't leave without him.

(3) There is a closeness between the two as demonstrated by the fact that it is Merry who stays with Frodo when Bilbo disappears; Frodo knew Bilbo was leaving and, we have to assume, knew what to expect from the rest of the Shire when he did (at least he seemed to). Yet, of all of those who might be better able to help him with the aftermath, he chose Merry -- still a tweenager -- to stay with him and help him through it. He would have to have had a lot of confidence in Merry's abilities to be of assistance and a lot of faith in their relationship to trust him to witness this very trying time.

(4) There is an intimacy verified by the fact that Merry recognises that Frodo will be leaving the Shire; knowing someone might have a predisposition to high-tail it is quite different from having the ability to see the signs that the time is close. Frodo did everything he could to hide the fact that he was leaving and yet could not hide it from Merry. Don't forget: Merry saw the signs before Sam overheard Gandalf's tale about the Ring. Sam wouldn't have even been there, had Merry not asked him to be.

(5) There is yet more love evidenced by Frodo's unwillingness to include his cousins in his plans to leave in the first place; yes, you could certainly argue that Frodo would have gone alone, had Sam not been eavesdropping and then been more or less ordered by Gandalf to go with him, but when given the advice to take along others, he still chose to do what he could to leave his cousins out of it.

By contrast, there is very little 'evidence' of an intimate relationship between Frodo and Sam pre-Quest. One only needs to read the first few chapters of LOTR to see that the relationship is no more than a friendly master/servant one at that time. (The movies are quite a different story but the most rabid Frodo/Sam OTPers also happen to be those who purport to despise the movies and revere canon, so let's work with this for now.) If it is a relationship of a more intimate nature, it doesn't appear to be a very healthy one. Sam is so deferential to Frodo and Frodo so authoritarian with Sam that, if they are being intimate with each other at this point, neither of these characters are ones who deserve the love and reverence of their fanbase… because, you know -- ew. Certainly there are ways in which both behaviours could be explained by climbing into the character's heads and giving the reader a different spin on what's going on in there and why the behaviours make sense in the context of an intimate, sexual relationship. But by and large, authors don't tend to bother. They simply assume that relationship, ignore the aspects of canon that would argue against it and expect the reader to assume all of that with them. Which, don't get me wrong, is fine; I have just as much suspension-of-disbelief as anyone else -- probably more -- and am mostly happy to go along for the ride, whether I believe the precepts or not. Frodo/Sam is a fun pairing and I have, in fact, written it a time or two myself and have read it countless times. It's only when the 'Frodo/Sam is THE OTP' is preached at me that my teeth tend to grind.

Truthfully, I don’t have an OTP. Frodo/Merry is my favourite pairing but I’m not closed-minded enough that any other pairing squicks me. Actually, that’s not true – Frodo/Any Chick is my favourite pairing but we all know how much het is about, so I make do. But back to my point (and I’m pretty sure I have one but let’s wait ‘til we get to the end and see).

Anyway, yes – I can see and believe a Frodo/Sam relationship once the Quest gets underway but I can more reasonably see Frodo/Merry before then. Now, that’s not to say that I find all pre-Quest Frodo/Sam unbelievable because I don’t, especially in movie-verse. There are hundreds of those kinds of fics and I absolutely read and enjoy them – I’ve written them. But I’m finding I’m enjoying them less and less now and for entirely different reasons.

When thinking about what I wanted to say here, I came to the conclusion that, in order to demonstrate the logic of this particular pairing, one must also 'ding' the logic of other pairings. As with most new 'theories', one must poke holes in the old in order to get others to consider the logic of the new.

In hobbit fandom, you have two basic pairings that have become 'The Pairings' and any other pairing besides those two are more or less considered 'fringe pairings'; that is: pairings that others sort of play with when they need a plot device or conflict in order to further or enhance the logic of their own.

Those pairings in the hobbit fandom are Frodo/Sam and/or Merry/Pippin. It's become quite ingrained fanon to consider one or both of these 'couples' as an OTP and an author really doesn't have to demonstrate the logic of either pairing in order to use them in a story. They have become so accepted within the fandom that any other pairing involving one or more of these characters is one that must be either used as a way to get one of the OTPs together (ex.: Sam sees Merry with Frodo and gets jealous, therefore coming to realise that he has loved Frodo all along and now must fight for him), or as a sort of 'consolation prize' (ex.: Frodo thinks he'll never have Sam, so he uses Merry as a sort of 'comfort' in between pining episodes for his One True Love). If anyone does read a Frodo/Merry story, it's usually just to see what new way Frodo has come up with to dump Merry for Sam and leave Merry heartbroken so that Pippin has to pick up the pieces, or to see how Merry is suffering through the ordeal of waiting for Pippin to be old enough to tup and Frodo relieving Merry's sexual frustrations as a favour to him because that's just the kind of generous soul Frodo is.

*rolls eyes*

When one writes anything besides Frodo/Sam or Merry/Pippin, one must be prepared for the feeling of 'swimming upstream'. You must approach the relationship as though you are attempting to prove a difficult theorem -- you must have all of your proofs ready, double-check your logic and do the math several times over before you present your sum. And even then, you will still have to explain the logic of the problem over and over again to the fundamentalists, who will accuse you of either playing fast and loose with the basics of math or of wearing a tin hat. And the funniest (and most frustrating) part of all of that is: those who will be looking askance or making accusations are those who seem not to have the first clue about who any of these characters really are and those who are so immersed in fanon characterisations that they've completely forgotten or overlooked what makes these characters who and what they are to begin with.

Fanon!Frodo is rather a willowy character, who -- honestly -- I couldn't imagine gathering the courage to step out of Bag End, let alone the Shire. He is someone who has never worked a day in his life, who spends his days reading and/or translating Elvish texts, who seems to have no responsibilities whatsoever to his tenants or holdings besides confronting Lotho every once in a while. Oh, and pining for Sam. Because, you know -- Frodo was a virgin before Sam. (You think I'm kidding but seriously -- many consider any depiction of Frodo as having had sex with anyone other than Sam both unbelievable and sacrilegiously AU.)

Fanon!Sam is your all-around 'Abuse me, please, and I'll love you even more for it' sort of guy. He is smarter than Frodo, stronger than Frodo and, more often than not, someone who probably would have traipsed up the Mountain and tossed the Ring into the Fire without a qualm or second-thought. He is also someone who will put up with all of the abuse Fanon!Frodo heaps on him (and Fanon!Frodo is very good at the abuse thing) with a serene smile and tolerant, loving attitude. And he taught Frodo what that funny dangly thing between his legs is for. No, really. And he's always the Top.

Fanon!Merry and Fanon!Pippin are actually pretty much interchangeable. Neither of them seems to have any sort of responsibilities and neither of them seems to have made the decision to join Frodo on his Adventure with anything other than a vague idea of what it all meant. And they are each both so involved with the other to the exclusion of Frodo himself that one wonders why they bothered to even pay attention to the fact that he was leaving because neither made the decision to accompany him out of any apparent love for him or concern for his safety or that of their homes. And they sneak off into the bushes together an inordinate amount of times, even when the cousin they are supposed to love is suffering through the Morgul wound. Yeesh.

I won't bore you with why all of those characterisations are off-base to someone who has read the books. If you even ventured into this particular diatribe, I have to assume that you have both an open-mind and a familiarity with the characters.

For myself, coming from a thirty-plus-year book background and a very great love for the text and original characters, none of these characterisations work very well for me. I can enjoy them for a limited period of time -- mostly it's enough to get me through the fic -- but rarely do any of them have any lingering impact, except when the characterisations are so off that I make a point of subsequently avoiding the author. But the funny thing is, the authors who write these characterisations and the readers who prefer them, are the very same who will argue long and loud that they know canon and are only writing/reading what they've extrapolated from it. And who consider anything but Frodo/Sam and/or Merry/Pippin AU and who make uneducated cracks about 'Tin-hattery' when confronted with something that might threaten their own narrow views on what is or is not canon.

Having been witness to a lot of this and on the receiving-end of some of it, I feel the need to make the following very clear: I did not come by my love for Frodo/Merry because Dom and Elijah turn me on (though, okay, I kinda think Dom’s a little hot), I did not come by my love for Frodo/Merry because I read something into canon that is not there (there isn’t and I didn’t), I did not come by my love for Frodo/Merry because it’s THE popular pairing and I wanted in on the action (it so obviously isn’t and there really is none) and I did not come by my love for Frodo/Merry because someone wrote essay upon essay about how it was what Tolkien really meant (because omg, there really are people who think they channel Tolkien and he tells them that Frodo and Sam bonked all the way to Mordor).

I came by my love for Frodo/Merry because, as most of you probably came by your love for your own chosen pairings, there was something within that relationship that ‘spoke’ to me, something about it I understood and recognised. I have more reasons to write Frodo/Merry than I have reasons not to and that’s pretty compelling for any author. No, I don’t see evidence of any slash relationship between them in canon but I do see evidence of a very deep and intimate relationship that I think is all too often made light of or even ignored. And for me, building on what is there is rewarding and a natural extension of the love I see between them.

I love Frodo/Sam – I really do. I know I’ve been beating on it a little bit but I don’t mean to beat on the pairing itself but rather a lot of the assumptions and biases that come along with it and which exclude the possibility of any other pairing. I read quite a lot of Frodo/Sam and when it’s done right, I really enjoy it. (And my own personal opinions of ‘done right’ is a rather lengthy essay unto itself and pretty ranty on a nameless very popular Frodo/Sam fic, which would get me into all kinds of trouble, I have no doubt, so we’re all better off if no one asks.) I think that the Frodo and Sam dynamic is a beautiful love story all by itself, with or without slash, and a very rich mine for a lot of the emotion Tolkien left out of canon.

But it is not THE One True Pairing. It is not even the most logical pairing, it is not the most obvious pairing and it is not the only pairing possible. I will not exclude the possibility that a Frodo/Sam relationship could develop throughout the course of the story but if there is a relationship that has been more or less 'handed' to the slash author by Tolkien, it's the Frodo/Merry relationship.

The Frodo and Merry relationship is itself a great love story, whether you appreciate slash or not. And it's a love that is right in front of the reader if he/she would but see it. It does not need to be 'explained' by fanfic and the fanfic author does not have to ask the reader to make assumptions because it's all right there in canon. If there is an established slash relationship within the text (and yes, I am fully aware there is not) then it is the Frodo/Merry one. One does not need to invent or explain this relationship because Tolkien has already done so. One just needs to be willing to see it.

One of the things [livejournal.com profile] ship_manifesto asks for when you commit to submitting an essay here is recommendations. There are few for this pairing. Actually, there are many fics but very few that don't have Merry taking Sam's 'sloppy seconds', as one friend calls it, or Merry just doing Frodo until Pippin is old enough. Therefore, there are few that I can recommend for anyone who might look for the same things I do. So, the following might seem a bit lean but it's all I've managed to find:

Nexus by Willow-wode
(Rated Adult. What a wonderful, loving relationship this depicts. A mutual loving relationship and one between two characters who know and understand each other, who love each other equally. Author Summary: Merry is young, impulsive, and thoroughly done with waiting.)

And the short companion piece that goes with it:

Mirrors, also by Willow-wode
(Rated Adult. It's truly amazing, the things this author manages to say in so few well-chosen words. Author's Summary: Merry has always liked mirrors; Frodo has not.)

Where An Argument Leads You by Dana
(Rated NC-17. I love it when Dana does Frodo/Merry because she usually does it for me and though she hates leaving Pippin out of things, she always gives me at least a small snap-shot of these two alone and with no one else but them in the room -- and I mean that in more ways than the physical. Author's Summary: They haven't been arguing. Really.)

Forever Frodo by Trianne
(Rated NC-17. One of the few post-Quest Frodo/Merry stories you will find. I like it because it's a story that lures you in with a light-hearted feel and then whacks you when you're least expecting it. Author Summary: Merry delights in the lasting effects of the Ent draught...)

Wow, that's even a skimpier list than I'd thought. My apologies but there are very few who write this pairing as a pairing in and of itself and not a 'stop-over' on its way to one of THE OTPs. I suppose that's why I write so much of it myself. Now I'm all depressed.
dreamflower: gandalf at bag end (Default)

[personal profile] dreamflower 2006-01-03 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
*grin* I love debate as well. I was on the team in HS.

Of course, a good part of my "squick" at the age difference is cultural. And I do once in a while read some of the "low-rated" slash if it is written by authors I trust, so it's not something I can't overcome if it's written well enough. Another part of my problem with it has to do with my following the idea that hobbits matured differently than Men, as well, and that I am well aware of, is controversial and not universally accepted. (And another debate altogether, LOL!)

Possibly Frodo could have been the reason Merry was friends with Pippin--I am certain that Frodo *was* a factor in their relationship, though not quite in the way of Frodo being Pippin's friend first. That, I freely confess is my very own take on the relationship, and I was unaware until afterward that it was also "fanon" but it's not something that I would insist on (although, as you mention, it is good to see reasons for any particular take on a relationship, whether it is romantic *or* merely familial friendship--and even when it is the "accepted" relationship.) I don't assume Merry and Pippin were closer merely because of the age, but because of certain clues that I believe I have caught in the books. But, there again it is a matter of interpretation.

I do not think Merry and Sam had a *close* friendship, nor do I think Sam had a *close* friendship with Frodo. But I do think there was a certain level of friendship on both their parts with Sam, as well as a level of personal respect for Sam (and from Sam a level of respect for them that transcended the status thing) otherwise I simply cannot see how Merry and Sam would have found the level of *trust* needed, to carry on the Conspiracy. However, I am sure that it was mostly unacknowledged and unspoken, especially after Sam came of age. It was not until they left on the Quest and traveled together, however, that a closeness was possible on Sam's part. And I think (and again, this is my personal interpretation) that if *Sam* had been willing to overcome his upbringing, he would not have found a closer friendship *rejected* by the other three. I see Frodo, Merry and Pippin as being rather unconventional in some of their viewpoints--and that, again is my personal interpretation of other clues I see in the books.

But still, I think what I was trying to convey was that I find I agree with most of the first part of what you said, and I agree that *if* I was more into slash, yes, a Merry/Frodo pairing makes far more sense than a Frodo/Sam, LOL!
dreamflower: gandalf at bag end (Default)

[personal profile] dreamflower 2006-01-03 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
they went for Frodo, unless I read wrong, so when I see those types of fics I want to ask, 'Um... are you two aware that the cousin you're supposed to love and want to protect has come along as well? That's him over by Sam, see?'

Uh-huh. And believe it or not, you even see that sort of thing in gen, when, really you think the authors would have no particular ax to grind. Frodo, Merry and Pippin were *blood kin*--and yes, post-Quest, nearly having died in one another's arms would have created a bond between Frodo and Sam that would be as close, before that, not. But those three were *cousins*, and Frodo and Merry in particular had also had several years under the same roof. They gave up the safety of family and home and pretty much everything they knew to follow him into danger--not some accidental lark (which is one of the two or three unforgivable things PJ did). Once they were seperated, I am sure there were frequent times when all Merry and Pippin could do was to worry over Frodo. And we know that he took thought of them at least once as they made their way in Mordor--that *is* canon!

I can't really see either Merry or Pippin losing sight of why they really left the Shire.

[identity profile] elenya54.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
*glomps you back and gets into argumentative stride*

In other words, how can one sacrifice a life not fully lived and still have it considered sacrifice?

So - you're saying that someone who is celibate can not fully live, and could have no worth to place on their people and their land?



[identity profile] ghyste.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 06:56 pm (UTC)(link)
What I have a serious problem with is the attitude that it's okay to 'take shots' at other people for what they do/don't like and to make assumptions about those people based on even more (99% of the time faulty) assumptions.

One of the problems in fandom is the tendency to assume any statement of preference which differs from your own is a personal insult and to respond in kind. Drives me mad, even though I've rarely been on the receiving end.

I also find it disturbing that there actually are many people who read outside of the F/S relationship for one reason or another and are literally afraid to admit it

If that's true, then I find it disturbing too - both that people would make threats based on 'ship preferences and that those on the receiving end don't just laugh in their faces.

I will cryptically note that there is a way to give them a happy ending -- two ways, in fact

OK, there's never no way in fandom, but all of the ways that I can think of are an AU too far for my inner canon nazi! However, I'm willing to trust you and may well take a peek at the last chapter. Of course, if I don't like it I'll be forced to run you out of the fandom ;)

[identity profile] baranduin.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 07:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Fabulous essay!

If I were ever to turn to hobbits-only pairings (in other words, if hell ever freezes over), it would be to Frodo/Merry and it would have to be from a book perspective. To my way of thinking, Merry is Frodo's equal in intelligence and sensibilities, which is really very silly of me to say because that implies I look to logic for my pairings :-)


[identity profile] elderberrywine.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 07:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh.

*tucks my membership card away in my sock drawer and wanders off, whistling innocently*

I must guiltily admit that, way back in the day, when I first discovered the Wonderful World O'LOTR Slash, I wrote a couple of letters to authors suggesting hopefully that they write a story that would answer a certain "what if". But I must say that they were authors who seemed to me as if they might actually write that sort of thing, I certainly never would have dreamed of converting anyone.

But since I started to write myself, I have discovered the truth - that authors write what they have, indeed, need to write. Agree or disagree though you may, and certainly, I have read many a fic where I had an immediate WTF? reaction, and decided that these characters weren't anyone I recognized, the point is, those characters were right and acted in ways that were right to the author, and I have absolutely no call to foist my personal opinion on her (or possibly him). Well, I am so preaching to the choir here, but I guess I could go on about this, too.

I guess I've managed to steer clear of where most of those folks hang out, but the canon thing just really never fails to amuse. Any kind of slash? Sorry, folks, so not canon. But gen, too? Guess what, also not canon. In general, not written by JRR himself, including any movie version? Not canon. Recognizing that fundamental point right off, we can all get back to what matters. Hobbit-lurve in whatever form pleases you! Never can be enough of that.

[identity profile] elenya54.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
But I have never been there, have no reason to expect I will in the future, and so sacrificing that means very little to me other than a vague knowledge that I will be missing out on something that others have told me is a life-changing experience. Therefore, this is something that is a very small sacrifice for me.

Erm, so - if I decide to go in for some self-sacrifice to save Queen and country because I'm noble and stuff, even if I don't particularly like the monarchy, but I haven't been to Africa then I needn't bother 'cos it's only sacrifice not Sacrifice.

:D

But I'm only partly joking, because I can't see that not having sex lessens a sacrifice made, any more than not going to Africa does. Maybe we just place a different importance on sex.


The Celibate Librarian that so many make of Frodo would have nothing to be purified of.

But I don't hold the celibate librarian view of Frodo, either. Celibate, fine, but still a well rounded person, who shows a deep love for his home and friends. The celibacy could be, as Ghyste suggests, an effect of the Ring, or it could be the life choice of someone who finds himself not able to conform to a heterosexual world, but I don't believe Frodo would be any less a person for that.


Oh, I might've just gotten myself into some real trouble with that one.


I won't pretend that the question hasn't crossed my mind, but I consider it not irreverent, but irrelevant. It in no way changes the teaching or the sacrifice.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :kiss:

[identity profile] estelanui.livejournal.com 2006-01-03 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)

I’m here via the links of Willow Wode and Elanorgardner. It’s really an interesting essay with well reasoned motivations of your point of view. I agree basically with all of them, especially with the observations concerning canon.

I would like to express two opinions about hobbit pairing and OTP. The first one is a bit obvious and wants to underline how deeply the movies have affected the fanfiction idea of the hobbits. I think that the threes films have given a fairly accurate picture of the hobbit nature along with their way of living; but at the same time have shown us a Ringbearer, two cousins, a gardener and also Bilbo that are not the identical characters of the book. While in the movies the main hobbit characters are not an inaccurate or unfaithful translation, they traits are not the original ones. I don’t blame the movies for that because I’m fond of whole PJ’s adaptation and I can forget objectionable parts. As a reader when I begin a story I try to get the particular ‘traslation’ of the author in order to have an orientation in his/her pairing universe.

The second opinion is about the OTP idea. Does THE OTP exist? When I think to an x/y pairing, the “/” in the middle can mean relationship, friendship, love or slash.
Few months ago I thought my preferred OTP was F/S; now I like a particular pairing with well precise characteristics, and it can be F/S or F/M, seldom F/P. (Ok,ok…Frodo have to be in it! :-)) I will try to explain why.
Let we think to a F/S pairing: what Frodo and what Sam? book!Frodo, movie!Frodo, bossy!Frodo, virgin!… oblivious!… inept!… selfish!… shrinking-violet!Frodo? And book!Sam, movie!…shy!… know-all!… naïve!… bossy!… percective!Sam?
And also book!Merry, funny!… grown-up!… childish!… responsible!Merry? And adorable eclectic Pippin?
These different characters are all present in hobbit fanfiction stories and combined give a wide range of pairings. This is not a sort of ‘indeterminacy principle’. Among different pairings I heartily lake one or two of them and I read others that seems convincing to me, but I don’t believe in THE universal OTP any more.
I was speaking only of my opinions that are highly partial, may be unfair, but that not contain at all judgments regarding the author or reader tastes. It’s always a welcomed challenge for me to meet with different point of view

Abby_Normal don’t feel depressed for the short F/M fic list because this is only the beginning. :-)

[identity profile] poppybrandybuck.livejournal.com 2006-01-04 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
Here via [livejournal.com profile] elanorgardner. Thank you for putting so clearly into words what I've always felt but never really analyzed about the closeness of the Frodo/Merry relationship. You also make some important points about Merry's characterization, namely, Merry, contrary to what many who write him seem to think, is a grownup.

F/M is one of my very favorite pairings and I wish there was more of it being written. Is there a F/M community around, perchance? If not, well... I'd be up for a F/M writing challenge, if one were to be presented...
sophinisba: Gwen looking sexy from Merlin season 2 promo pics (Default)

[personal profile] sophinisba 2006-01-04 04:58 am (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you wrote this and that [livejournal.com profile] willow_wode and [livejournal.com profile] elanorgardner linked to it because I learned quite a bit reading it last night and seeing the comments and discussions when I came back to it tonight. You make a lot of good points about the logic of the pairing, especially pre-Quest, and the evidence in canon for a real intimate and loving relationship between these two characters. This essay and the conversations here will influence the way I read the books in the future and the way I read and (occasionally) write these characters.

I didn't read the books until after the first movie came out so I never really got a chance to savor book characterizations before my ideas got shaped by the movies. And not too long after that I started reading fanfic by authors who, like yourself, had a really long history with the books and had thought long and hard about these characters and relationships. This has meant that most of my understanding of Merry and his relationship with Frodo comes from what I've read in fanfic and not from what I myself picked up from reading the books.

The thing is, my fanon!Merry, the one I learned to love primarily through fanfic and comments on fanfic, is really remarkably similar to canon!Merry as you describe him. He's mature and intelligent and understands Frodo very well. He's loved Frodo all his life and is quite... well, the adverb that always comes to my mind is fiercely -- he's quite fiercely in love with him, fiercely protective of him, in some slash fics fiercely possessive. As a reader I eat this stuff up. Lately I prefer reading Frodo/Merry to Frodo/Sam. Partly just so I can see a plot I haven't seen twenty times before, but also because I love this particular relationship for the intensity, the long history of love between cousins, the angst.

I must say I've read very little fic where Merry and Pippin are childlike and indistinguishable. I hear people complaining about it all the time, but I very seldom actually see it, (just as I never feel the fabled pedophile vibe in interspecies fic, but that's a whole 'nother issue), and it seems to me that your essay could stand to put down F/S and M/P fans and authors, and fandom in general, a little less. Maybe I'm a naive newbie but I credit other fans, including F/S authors, for giving me a good understanding of these characters.

When I started reading fanfic a little over a year ago I came with the desire to read F/S, having been deeply moved by that relationship as it was shown in the movies and during the Quest in the books. I read a lot of F/S during the time I was lurking but hooked up with the interspecies crowd around the time I "came out", so I've have never really had much contact with F/S authors. I've had no experience at all with the rabid F/S shippers of whom you speak and wonder if their intolerance is really as widespread as you make it out to be.

To be honest, I was a bit put off by the tone of parts of your essay, including the first paragraph when you lament that you are preaching to the choir, that is, that those who disagree with you will not bother to read what you have to say or to think through your arguments. I guess you've had bad experiences in the past and I'm sorry for that and feel lucky to have had only good ones... but I don't see the need to start out by saying that other people will hate you for telling the truth. I personally happen to agree with most of the content of your essay, but the oppositional attitude actually made me not want to read it at first. I think your points could have been made with less in the way of caricature of people who see things differently. In particular the way you roll your eyes at the way most people write Frodo/Merry to me does not seem very helpful.

To sum up: Very interesting and informative essay. Please cheer up! (And please don't be angry with me. I don't mean to offend, really. And sorry that this is so long -- I got a little carried away.) Thank you for writing and sharing!

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