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ship_manifesto2009-12-26 08:16 am
Under the Same Sky: Sasuke and Sakura (Naruto) Part 2
Counters to Some Common
Arguments Against the Pairing
Sasuke hates Sakura!
He really doesn’t, as the development section shows. Actually, Sasuke himself has referred to her as a precious comrade. He doesn’t love her romantically (yet), but he does care about her a great deal.
Sasuke rejected her the night he left; it means the pairing is dead!
This is one of those arguments that I just don’t get. Was Sasuke really supposed to accept Sakura’s offers and either bring her to Orochimaru’s lair (where she would likely be used as a test subject for Kabuto) or completely forget about avenging his dead family? While I personally loathe his decision to abandon Konoha in favor of training under Orochimaru, I can see his justifications for it. He’d spent the past five years training to become Itachi’s equal, yet their encounter at the hotel showed that all that work still hadn’t closed the gap between them even slightly. Against Dosu, Zaku, and Kin, he saw a bit of how powerful Orochimaru would be able to make him. He singlehandedly defeated three opponents at once, and their defeat of Lee proved that they were far from weak.
When Sasuke found Sakura waiting beside the road that night, he could easily have just kept walking. Instead, he chose to stay and talk to her. We saw him lie to her, for no apparent reason other than to avoid mentioning a time when she had made him angry. And, even after she revealed that she cared for him far more than she should, he still didn’t outright reject her. Instead, he thanked her.
If he was trying to tell her that they had no hope for a future together, wouldn’t it have been kinder in the long run to just say so? Rejection hurts, but letting Sakura keep believing in a false hope would be even worse.
As mentioned in the beginning, part 1 didn’t show Sakura gaining her super strength or medical ninjutsu. Instead, what we saw was the development of a desire to gain those powers. She started the series as a twelve-year-old girl, and as Kakashi put it, girls her age are more interested in love than ninjutsu. Not true for every girl, but fairly accurate in regards to Sakura.
The problem with this is that we don’t see Sakura remain weak. Indisputably, Sakura was in love with Sasuke until chapter 181 of the manga. During that time, can we really say that she made no improvements?
In the development section, I discussed how we watched Sakura’s love mature over the course of part 1. As we witnessed that, we saw her character improve also. Sakura began the series commenting that orphans were lucky not to have parents around to scold them. During chapter 181, we see her show a genuine understanding of just what being an orphan means for Sasuke while still trying to convince him to stay.
During the
Earlier, we had also seen her protecting her comrades when she fought the Otonin in the
Finally, we saw Sakura begin to show her real self. At the beginning of part 1, Inner Sakura had been created to express the feelings that outer Sakura was unwilling to show. Over the course of part 1, her appearances decrease. Her last appearance during part 1 was during Sakura’s preliminary match against Ino, where Inner Sakura shoved Ino out of Sakura’s mind.
All the events above occurred during the time frame where Sakura was confirmed to love Sasuke. They demonstrate her physical, emotional, and mental improvement during that time period. Loving Sasuke did not make Sakura weak. Her lack of desire to improve herself in the beginning of the series is what made her weak. Over the course of part 1 we saw her realize this weakness and begin to change it, even while still loving Sasuke. The growth of her feelings occurred at the same time as her growth as a person. Fancy that.
Sakura has given up on Sasuke!
The main problem with this is that Sakura is currently acting under incomplete information. Before his conversation with Madara, we'd seen Naruto himself doubt his former teammate. Yet afterwards, we see him defend Sasuke's decisions to Sakura, saying that he now understands Sasuke's need for revenge.
From what Sakura knows, Sasuke completed his revenge and immediately went on to join the organization that wants to kill her remaining teammate. She knows nothing about the truth of the Uchiha Clan Massacre, nothing about how the Elders never specified against killing the innocent eight-year-old or how they had a thirteen-year-old commit the deed. She doesn't know that the village she wants Sasuke to return to is the true cause of the death of his beloved family. Learning that would definitely change how she views things and would probably convince her that Sasuke still has a chance for redemption. He may not be reacting in the most perfectly logical way, but after being mind-screwed as much as he has I honestly don't blame him. He appears to have abandoned his "wipe out Konoha" plan, and chapter 476 showed him choosing to question Danzou about his guilt rather than attacking him on sight.
Even now, even when she believes that Sasuke is so far beyond redemption that he can only be saved through death, in chapter 474 it is still openly declared multiple times that Sakura still loves Sasuke. Sai and Naruto, the two insisting this, had just listened to Sakura say that she no longer cared for a criminal like Sasuke. And yet neither one believes it. Naruto especially is amazed that she'd be willing to kill him because, "Sakura-chan loves Sasuke so much!" Even after everything Sasuke has done, Sai says that she doesn't want to kill him because she hates him. She wants to kill him because she loves him. She wants to save him.
In the past, we've seen Sakura waver only once in her determination to save Sasuke: after Naruto's battle at the Valley of the End. After giving Sakura his Promise of a Lifetime that he would bring Sasuke back to Konoha, Naruto returned coated in bandages "like a mummy". Sakura hadn't been at the battle to see him gain these injuries. She didn't know that Sasuke very clearly turned his hand at the last minute so his Chidori didn't impale Naruto; she didn't know that he'd refused to follow in Itachi's footsteps even though it was the "only" way for him to get strong enough to avenge his clan. All she knew was that Sasuke had tried to leave the village, Naruto had gone to stop him, and Naruto had returned coated in wounds. If ever there was a time when she would give up on Sasuke, that would be it. And, at first, we did see her give up. Despite Naruto shouting to anyone who will listen that his ninja way says he’ll never give up, I didn’t find this surrender to be negative. We, the readers, knew that Sasuke wasn’t far enough gone to kill his own teammate, but when Sakura finds the one person she thought would be able to get through to Sasuke coated in bandages, what else is she supposed to think?
That is why I don’t think Sakura’s actions there were a bad thing. I think she was trying to save Naruto. He’d made her a promise, and he’d gotten the living daylights beaten out of him trying to fulfill it. Was Sakura supposed to sit back and tell him to do that again? No. Sakura wouldn’t do that to one of her precious people. Even though it clearly hurt her to do so, she told him to give up in order to protect him. When he insisted that he would still keep his promise, Sakura didn’t take it as a free ride. Instead, she vowed that next time they would bring Sasuke back together.
Now, like then, Sakura has just had it slammed in her face that Sasuke isn't some kind and perfect person. At the Valley of the End he almost killed Naruto; here, he's joined the organization who possesses the same goal. But the manga still shows us that, dark as Sasuke may be, he hasn't been lost completely. Prior to his fight with Naruto, Gaara killed probably hundreds of people purely for the sake of murder, but he still went on to become a Kazekage his village would mourn the loss of. With people like Gaara or even Nagato already redeemed in this manga, Sasuke is far from lost. And, despite the fact that she was nearly killed by Gaara herself, we saw no protest from Sakura when she participated in the mission to save him from the Akatsuki.
Piror to that rescue mission, Sakura's only real interaction with Gaara had been his attempt to kill her, an event which wouldn't leave a very positive impression. However, with Sasuke, Sakura has been shown plenty of times that he isn't a bad person. He's saved her at least three times, possibly four if you count when she fell after Gaara's sand released her. Naruto and Sai believe that she still loves him, and Kakashi and Yamato made no move to protest that assertion. A recent interview by Kishimoto for Jump Festa 2010 also confirms that she still loves Sasuke, "as expected". Prior to this recent barrage of negative information, we hadn't seen Sakura hesitate on her and Naruto's shared quest to save Sasuke. Early on, she mentioned that over the timeskip she had spent years studying so that when the time came, she would be able to protect them both.
But now, he last few chapters alone have had multiple instances of Sakura being confronted with how evil and irredeemable Sasuke is now. Naruto's declaration at the end of 469 tells us that this wasn't enough to make her move on from him, as do the comments by both Sai and Naruto in chapter 474. However, wouldn't it seem to her like it should be? Sakura's heart hasn't changed "like the autumn sky", but wouldn't it sound to her like it should?
That's why I don't view this as something negative. Sai tells us quite clearly that she isn't doing this because she wants to. She's doing it because she believes it's the only way to save Sasuke. She told Naruto to give up on him, not because she's stopped caring, but she wants to end the suffering of one of her closest friends.
It's often argued against the pairing that Sakura's feelings are selfish, especially during her confession in chapter 181. This idea shows that that couldn't be farther from the truth. We'd already seen during scenes like Sakura's choice of a daffodil that her feelings had matured beyond just idolizing the pretty boy. She genuinely cared for him. We were shown during chapter 181 that she'd do anything to help him. Now, we've also been shown that even while Sakura loves Sasuke, while she is willing to give up everything she has to be with him, she isn't going to force her friends or Sasuke to suffer to reach that end. Now, from what Sakura has heard, it sounds as though the only way to stop Sasuke from sinking any lower is to kill him. She wants to rescue him from the evil path he is on, even if the only way to do it is by staining her own hands with his blood. Sai also reveals that even while she was planning this, a part of her was also acting purely for Naruto's sake to try to cause him the least pain as a result of her decision. She wanted to protect Sasuke; she wanted to keep her friends from starting a cycle of revenge; she wanted to keep from hurting Naruto. In the end, when Sakura acts on her supposedly selfish love, she tries to spare the pain of everyone except herself.
SasuSaku ignores Naruto! The idea of their relationship hurts him!
With chapter 469 and chapter 474, I think we can safely say that Naruto has accepted the idea of this pairing, and it seems as though he supports it. In the past, we'd seen him step out of the room to allow the two of them a moment in private when Sakura hugged Sasuke at the hospital. And, as mentioned in the development section, it wasn't Sakura's reaction that caused Naruto to do this. It was Sasuke's.
When Sakura begged for him to return Sasuke in chapter 183, we saw Naruto hesitate for only a moment before remarking that she really liked Sasuke. Then he promised to bring Sasuke back.
If there was ever a scene that caused Naruto to realize that Sakura's feelings were serious, it was that. Yes, we do see him express brief pain over the idea. But in under a page, he's pushed that pain aside. He wants his precious people to be happy.
More than three years have passed since then, but those two chapters show us that Naruto still remembers. This time, there was no pain or hesitation. 'Sakura loves Sasuke.' This time, Naruto wasn't expressing any grief over that idea. This time, he was the one encouraging her to continue.
Fandom Guide
(In reverse from the rest of the manifesto, this section was written/compiled by Ngure and beta'd by Erendhyl.)
The SasuSaku fandom is one of the best there is in Naruto. This section is intended to help you navigate this very large fandom.
Shrines:
These are websites, made by fans, dedicated to the pairing. All of them are in English.
Heart of A Shinobi:
http://sasusaku.tripod.com/
Harmonia:
http://www.geocities.com/kunoichi_cherushi/sshome.html
Uchiha Sasuke and Haruno Sakura--A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.freewebs.com/purplecat14/index.htm
Windswept-A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://laced-up.org/winds/info.php
Yin and Yang-A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.amourae.com/sasusaku/
- Version One: http://www.amourae.com/sasusaku/v1/
- Version Two: http://www.amourae.com/sasusaku/v2/
Dwindle- A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.geocities.com/anomynousgurl/bu.html
P O L A R I T Y- A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://magicalwings.net/sasusaku/
Far Away: A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.freewebs.com/sasusaku/
Only Hope: A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.freewebs.com/xhiddenlove/
Thank You: A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://naruto.mokora.net/sasusaku/
Saku to Sasu- A SasuSaku Shrine:
http://www.freewebs.com/punksakura/index.htm
Warrior x Cherry Blossom- A SasuSaku Fan Work Listing/ Shrine
http://sasusaku.tsuki-hana.org/fanworks/
Communities/Forums:
Interested in talking to other fans of SasuSaku? Check these sites out.
SasuSaku: Under The Same Sky FC; NarutoFan:
http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=52501
Sasuke x Sakura; LiveJournal:
http://community.livejournal.com/sasusaku/
SasuSaku Love; LiveJournal:
http://community.livejournal.com/chiharu_euphie/
Sincerely Yours: Sasuke x Sakura Guild; GaiaOnline:
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/?guild_id=15169
I Love You With All My Of Heart!- A SasuSaku Fanclub:
http://www.freewebs.com/sakura_loveangel/index.htm
Moon and Sun- SasuSaku and NaruHina Forum:
http://sunluna.proboards.com/index.cgi?
Essays:
Written by fans, expressioning their love and views on SasuSaku.
Original SasuSaku Manifeso: Blooming by Zauberer_sirin
http://community.livejournal.com/shi...58.html#cutid1
In Defense of SasuSaku; By Des_Butterfly
http://community.livejournal.com/chuunin/2620814.html
Why SasuSaku is Plausible; By -Blue-n-Pink-
http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/15292/10587452/1/
- NarutoFan Essay Posts Compilation:
http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...ostcount=29019
FanFiction:
Stories written by fans of SasuSaku.
Sakura and Sasuke, Flower and Shadow; FanFiction.net
http://www.fanfiction.net/community/..._shadow/17670/
Forever Devoted; Fanfiction Compilation
http://hokage.fifteenth-moon.net/sasusakuff/
sasuXsaku Shrine; FanFiction.net
http://www.fanfiction.net/community/..._shrine/22102/
Sasuke x Sakura Recs; LiveJournal:
http://community.livejournal.com/sasusaku_recs/
Paper Fans are Bounty in Spring; LiveJournal
http://community.livejournal.com/springpaperfan/
Fanart:
English:
- SasuSaku-Fans; Deviantart:
http://sasusaku-fans.deviantart.com/
SasuxSaku-Fanclub; Deviantart
http://sasuxsaku-fanclub.deviantart.com/
SasuSaku-FansFC; Deviantart
http://sasusaku-fansfc.deviantart.com/
We Love Sakura and Sasuke; Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/groups/593581@N22/
Japanese:
- Japanese SasuSaku listing of Websites:
1. http://rknt.jp/s/sasusaku/
2. http://sa.kurakara.net/ys.cgi?mode=kt&kt=01_05_01
Doujinshi list: http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost...ostcount=53585
Doujinshi: http://photobucket.com/guestlogin?al...0-%20sasusaku/
PhotoBucket Albums:
- 1. http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j2...rt%20pictures/
2. http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...rt%20pictures/
3. http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r...kumomo/fanart/
4. http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m211/Lenne_sasusaku/
Other References:
This is a Photobucket album with references to SasuSaku outside the chapters themselves.
http://s144.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20references/
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Thanks a lot, both of you, for writing all this.
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Thanks!~
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Sorry about the links; I'll go through them later today and try to clear out any that don't work.
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(Anonymous) 2009-12-29 06:47 am (UTC)(link)so beautiful. i was just reading the old ss manifesto on here and thinking of so much that had happened since it was posted, all this delicious SasuSaku development and then THIS appears. ily so much. this is eloquent and to the point and captures all the reasons SasuSaku was my first OTP, is my favorite OTP and the only pairing to make my heart literally hurt. asdfjkl; i know after reading this i can only spend the rest of the night watching videos/reading fanfic/looking at fanart. it will be a night well spent. thank you.
-tsundere from NF (formerly Marina, btw)
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i actually cried in some parts, haha! but no, seriously. you're the smartest person that could ever make something like this! i mean, i never thought you'd figure all of them! and i 1000% agree with everything you said in the two parts. to be honest, and as embarrassed as i will be, i actually made the 2 parts as my bookmarks. ahaha!
well, good thing you made this. it made me more inspired in hoping to my only devoted pairing.
n_n
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I'm glad you liked it. That was the section I had to edit the most (chapter 474 just had to be awesome and change many things), so I was a little unsure about it. Cutting out my lengthy rant about why Sakura would continue to stick by Sasuke wasn't fun. Oh well, at least I had a pleasant surprise when Kishimoto managed to pull off a plotline I thought I'd hate (having Sakura abandon hope for Sasuke/decide to kill him) in such a way that I was left squeeing. That almost made up for it. Almost. And by almost I mean completely.
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Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-01-11 02:12 am (UTC)(link)But anyways, great job on this, really well-written :D
Re: Good job. . .
I hope you don't mind me debating your disagreements a bit though. As you said, Naruto really would be happy as long as Sakura and Sasuke are happy. (Not as in "he would feel no pain regardless of what they do", but in the same way that you're happy for your best friend who is dating someone they really love even though that friend isn't spending as much time with you as a result.) I think he does truly love both of them, but I don't think that that true love is romantic. I've viewed the series seeing his romantic feelings fade for quite some time while he continued to bond with Sakura. During Sai's flashback in chapter 457, he comments that he can't tell Sakura how he feels because he can't keep his Promise. While that line mentions his romantic feelings, it also shows that Naruto wasn't hanging out with Sakura in the hope that she'd someday grow to love him back. He was hanging out with her because he was happy to just be her friend. We saw during scenes like the Promise of a Lifetime that he accepted the idea that Sakura loved Sasuke, and during chapter 474 Naruto was the one bringing it up. During the latter scene, he looked far more hurt when thinking that Sakura no longer loved Sasuke (in any sense of the word) than when he insisted how much she loved him. If anything, he seemed to appreciate that there was someone else in the world who cared for Sasuke as much as he did, and the fact that that love was romantic didn't seem to hurt him.
That's probably not the most fleshed out argument, but I'm trying to keep this semi-brief. (And failing...)
Sakura doesn't really act pathetic when Sasuke's name is mentioned. In the past, like during her fight with Sasori, it made her become business-like and determined. During the Rescue Gaara mission, she brings up Sasuke to talk about the research she did over the past few years so that she'd be able to protect Sasuke and Naruto. The only time she really became a sobbing wreck was when talking to Karui, when she was told that Sasuke had joined the same organization that his completely evil older brother was in, the organization that wants to capture Naruto so that they can slowly and painfully kill him. She also started crying after Shikamaru told her that her classmates and friends have decided that they need to kill Sasuke to prevent a war. After hearing those things, I really wouldn't blame Sakura for crying, because they're not pleasant to hear, and they'd definitely hurt if she still loves him.
Sasuke, I think, is ignoring his brother's wishes because acknowledging them would mean accepting that he was fully responsible for hurting his brother for years. From what we've heard, Itachi's only negative feeling towards Konoha was fear that the Elders might try to hurt Sasuke. If Sasuke is entirely respecting Itachi's wishes, then no blame would belong to them. The only blame would belong to him for trying to kill the man who worked his hardest to keep him alive, and for hating someone who loved him the whole time. After so many years of hating Itachi, I don't think that Sasuke would be able to accept that knowledge without going completely insane. He distracts himself by desiring revenge on the only other "cause" of his brother's suffering: the Elders who ordered him to carry out the massacre.
(continued)
Re: Good job. . .
Long response, but hopefully it wasn't too bad. Again, thanks a lot for commenting, and I'm glad that you enjoyed the manifesto even if you no longer support the pairing. :)
Re: Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-01-11 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)See, this is what really ticks me off about the Sasuke haters. He's in an emotionally bad place right now and he's a trained warrior for cripes sake, what else does everyone think he should do, break out the china and have a tea party with his mortal enemies? Seriously if anyone's got a right to be pissed off, it's him.
**No one really tried to reach out to be his friend.**
This is the tragic part. Nobody cared about Sasuke (except team 7) until it was too late. It's kinda like everyone's caring about him after the fact and he's not there to see and feel it. Kind of an absentee recipient of the love that he desperately needed while he was still in the village, but you never know what you have until it's gone. Konoha is suffering a lot because of this, and it hasn't felt the same since Sasuke left. Plus Sai in his place doesn't feel right; no matter how much people care for him he'll NEVER take Sasuke's place and Sasuke is well aware of that fact.
SasuSaku is the OTP of this series. End of story. =]
Re: Good job. . .
I agree with both things you said, especially the tragedy of Sasuke. The only thing I disagree with is that I think Sasuke might someday feel as though Sai could be a better friend to Naruto and Sakura than him, if he has self-doubts after returning to Konoha and thinks that he caused too much pain to Naruto and Sakura for him to be good for them. Of course, we as readers know that they felt a lot more pain because they missed him than because his actions hurt them, but Sasuke hasn't been around to see that and I doubt he'd be thinking logically.
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I don't think Sasuke rejected her, he thanked her for loving him. It shows me that he appreciated what she said to That's why the moment is so ambiguous to him. I agree with what you said for a rebuttal against that argument. I think the quote from databook 2 about Sakura filling his lonely existence on that night goes to show just how important it was for Sasuke.
But anyways, good job addressing those anti arguments. It's frustrating that all the answers are right there in the manga yet so many people just choose to ignore them.
Re: Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-01-12 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Good job. . .
I agree very much with your description of the pairing. It isn't all rainbows and sunshine, and that means that it's all the more beautiful in those moments were we do get genuine happiness and in their potential future. There's beauty and sorrow in this pairing at the same time, and that's what makes me love it to bits. Even when you reread their happier moments from part 1, you know what's inevitably coming after Sasuke leaves, and you realize just how precious those moments were.
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I've also never understood how chapter 181 is considered a rejection if Sasuke's last words to her are ones of gratitude. If he was never ever going to love her no matter what she did, wouldn't he say as much, especially if he planned on leaving forever? Why thank her immediately after she says that she's willing to leave behind everything to be with him if he didn't appreciate her love? 'Thanks but no thanks' isn't that hard to say, and it would probably be kinder to Sakura in the long run if she isn't left confused about what he meant. Like I said in the previous manifesto section though, thanking Sakura was both ambiguous and positive, and it leaves the pairing in a spot where it still begs for resolution. If Kishimoto intended to dismiss the pairing, why would he choose to do that?
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thanks, that was beautiful -teary eyed-
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*hands you a tissue for your eyes*
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Re: Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-01-23 06:24 pm (UTC)(link)Naw, I don't mind a friendly debate. See, I did use to ship SasuSaku, because I thought, well, even though Sakura could never understand him, she (along with Naruto and Kakashi) could still bring him out of his darkness. Which was just heartbreakingly sweet. Then, Sasuke left and it seemed to me like SasuSaku ended before it could even start. And her love for Sasuke is getting a bit old for me, especially since he's said exactly one sentence to her in three years.
Ooh, totally agreed on the whole Sasuke and ignoring what Itachi wanted. Wow, I had never even thought of that! Still, Sasuke IS being a douche, even though he’s a mentally screwed up person and with his whole ‘severing the bonds with Team 7’ thing, SasuSaku doesn’t seem too probable. And then we get Karin who Sasuke honestly respects and likes. . . (Please don't kill me for that comment)
Ah yeah. I think right now, Naruto just wants everyone to be happy, and if it means giving up the girl he loves, then so be it. The most annoying part of all this though, is how Kishimoto seems to keep changing his mind. I honestly thought there weren’t going to be any pairings, and then Shippunden hits us over the head with NaruSaku, but then wait, Sakura still loves Sasuke? It’s like “Make up your goddamned mind buddy” >:(
And thanks for the detailed response by the way :D Another issue I have with SasuSaku is the screaming preteen fan base that has never heard of logic or grammar but you are the polar opposite =D
Re: Good job. . .
I guess the main thing we disagree on is whether or not it's reasonable for Sakura to still love Sasuke. Myself, I think that if Sakura "loved him more than anything", then that love would and should be able to remain after three years of separation. I actually really like how 474 presented it: Sakura isn't turning a blind eye to everything Sasuke's done (and from her limited knowledge, those deeds probably sound even worse), but that doesn't stop her from loving him.
Your old idea of SasuSaku is pretty much what I believe now. Sasuke needs the people who love him to remind him that he still has a present and a future, not just his past. They're his new family: Kakashi is the father Fugaku couldn't really be, Naruto is the brother Itachi would have liked to have been, and Sakura is the person with whom he'll start a family of his own.
Oh, I don't think that Sasuke doesn't have his very douche-y moments (some of them lasting a very, very long time...). Glad you liked my theory! While he does try to deny his bonds with his old team, the fact that they were the last thing he pictured before awakening Amaterasu says that, even if he won't let himself admit it, Team 7 is still valuable to Sasuke. After all the focus devoted to how he is Naruto's best friend in the whole entire world and Naruto will have a panic attack from worry over him, I don't think that Sasuke won't be reunited with his old team in some way.
As for the SasuKarin comment, don't worry. I dislike the pairing myself, but I don't see the point in flaming someone just because they disagree with you about the pairings of a fictional manga. Now, if they disagree with you about pairings and use that as an excuse to insult you first, that's a different story, but you've been a very nice and respectable person. :)
My view of the extensive Naruto-Sakura bonding in Shippuuden is that it establishes their bond to be strong and mutual, like the other bonds of Team 7. During part 1, Sakura thought that Naruto was "a pest out to ruin her life", and she didn't formally take that comment back until he made the Promise of a Lifetime to her. Naruto himself concentrated on his rivalry with Sasuke more than his bond with Sakura (probably helped by the fact that she initially disliked him), as well his bonds with every character he reformed. They needed time to interact to really form a bond, and part 2 provided that. They have a common goal, which helps them relate to each other, and, well, I can go on very long rants about why I don't see their time together as romantic, which I'll spare you in the interest of keeping this discussion at a length that's reasonable for you to actually read.
Re: Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-01-27 03:13 am (UTC)(link)Really, that's one of my three reasons for disliking SasuSaku now. Three years is such a long time! It all depends on someone's view of love I suppose. I was angry at Sakura's fake confession to Naruto but when Sai revealed that she was going to kill Sasuke to help Naruto and prevent Sasuke from falling even further, my heart went out to the poor girl. It must suck to be a teenage ninja in love with the enemy.
I love Team 7 and I miss the way they interacted :( You described the bond Sasuke had for them perfectly, even the Sakura part didn't seem to farfetched heh (although the Valley of the End arc was kinda. . .nonbrotherly)
Thank you for that :) SasuKarin is rather unpopular pairing and I get a lot of angry flamers for it. It's like honestly? It's a fictional manga. Get over it.
I completely agree with most of that xD During part one, Naruto and Sakura were basically just teammates
who became friends slowly. It was Sasuke leaving that really brought them together. I never reallycould see
NaruSaku until then. Now, I like them together because he respects her (which is a huge thing for me personally) and the way they interact is just so sweet it gives me cavities :3 but that's not really relevent :)
By the way, I want to add something to what you said in response to the arguement "Sasuke hates Sakura!" That one honestly irritates me. Yes, Sasuke thought she was annoying but at the end, he meant it affectionately. True, their bond was never as strong as his and Naruto's, but he's said so himself he cared about her!
Re: Good job. . .
I've been pitying Sakura for a while now, but Sai's explanation in chapter 474 really amplified it. Poor girl...
Even if I don't like NaruSaku as romance, I like the friendship between the two. Part of it comes from being a huge Team 7 fan and wanting all the bonds on the team to be strong, but it mostly comes from the fact that Naruto really has matured a lot in how he behaves towards Sakura, and their bond has grown because of it.
I agree so much with your last paragraph. I support SasuSaku, but that doesn't mean I don't think that Naruto and Sasuke have the strongest bond in the manga (and one of the most amazing bonds as well). I hate how it's often treated as though that stronger bond means that Sasuke felt absolutely nothing for Sakura, despite all the evidence to the contrary. He didn't fall in love with her, but she was still his precious teammate.
Re: Good job. . .
(Anonymous) 2010-02-05 12:35 am (UTC)(link)I find their relationship sweet :) Yeah, I like their friendship too. It's very healthy and postive for both of them.
Thank you! It's annoying how a lot of people dismiss the relationship both Sakura and Sasuke have with Naruto. I mean, if it wasn't for him, they would not have even become friends. But yeah, he DID care about her.
Personally, I can't stand Sasuke now. Him killing Karin made me want to scream a little bit. It was sick I don't get how he's redemable now. He's not even close to the same Sasuke he was in part one. He probably just likes killing now and using Itachi as a really horrible excuse.
See, I wouldn't mind SasuSaku if most of the (fanbrats) fans wrote it or portrayed it to how it would be. It would NOT be a healthy relationship which makes it actually interesting. Sakura would just give him everything and Sasuke would just stay emotionally distant. She would try as hard as she could to understand him but she couldn't. Ever. He would be annoyed with how much weaker she was than him, but wouldn't like it if she became stronger because that would hurt his inferiority/superiority complex. Sakura is the type of girl who likes grand romantic gestures and Sasuke sure as hell is not the type of guy to even get her flowers. That's just how their characters are, you know? Sasuke is insane, Sakura isn't going to be his light in the darkness, they aren't just going to skip off into the sunset together with him calling her Sakura-chan (which if they were really in love he wouldn't do silly fanbrats).
Ok, rant done. Sorry ;)
Comfort D:
(Anonymous) 2010-02-21 09:51 am (UTC)(link)Re: Comfort D:
A lot of people note Sakura's determination when discussing their decision to continue to support the pairing. Within the last ten chapters alone, we've seen her feelings remarked upon by Sai, Naruto, and Kishimoto himself directly, and it's been implied by Karin. Those comments haven't been negative either--especially in Naruto's case, the idea of Sakura still loving Sasuke was presented as the most desirable outcome. Knowing that this is a story, which the author can manipulate things at will, doesn't that sound like there's a reason?
When I think about my decision to stick by the pairing though, I'm mainly thinking about the cause of everyone's worry. I'm thinking about Sasuke. If he'd tried to stab her during chapter 181 after thanking her, then I likely would have stopped supporting the pairing. Back then, Sasuke was rational. He was sane. He'd been able to have a semi-normal conversation with Sakura immediately prior to that, and all of his reactions looked like that of a normal human being.
Here, that's changed. For many chapters now, Sasuke has looked completely crazed. His eyes and expressions aren't that of the normal, relatively sane individual he was back then. He's finally snapped, as his conversation with Kakashi more than shows. It's like he's a different person from the Sasuke of part 1.
Because of that, it almost feels to me like this Sasuke doesn't have the ability to break his bond with Sakura. He isn't behaving like a calm, rational individual who has realized that he really can't stand Sakura; he's behaving like someone who has lost any ability to reason things through. He isn't behaving like the Sasuke Sakura confessed to loving, and he isn't behaving like the Sasuke who told Naruto to take Sakura and flee while he held Gaara off.
This isn’t a minor difference. It’s not as though Sasuke had grown up over the timeskip and this is the new him. It’s like a completely different individual.
Eventually, I think that Sasuke will be redeemed. I only need to look at the many, many times Naruto has identified that as his goal, or at his comment that someone who can’t even save one friend has no right to become Hokage in order to remind myself of this. Someday, I think we will see a Sasuke returned to sanity. This state is a very new thing, and it wasn’t natural. Karin commented many times over the last arc how suddenly Sasuke’s chakra had changed. Even after hearing about Itachi, we still saw Sasuke value his comrades and Team 7 during his fight with Killerbee. It’s only recently that he’s lost it, and the change has been very noticeable. Given that, and given that he was portrayed sympathetically for most of the series, it seems to me that this will end. When that happens, I think that his bonds will be restored.
I’m not saying that his willingness to stab Sakura is meaningless, for me or for Sakura. But overall, I don’t think it’s as serious as if the sane Sasuke of part 1 had been willing to stab her or even the Sasuke of earlier during part 2. Kakashi officially declared him insane this chapter. In at least the American legal system, insanity is considered to be an excuse for crimes. It doesn’t mean that people are going to forgive you in an instant, or that your deeds suddenly vanish. It does, however, mean that things aren’t set in stone. Sasuke didn’t consider his bond with Sakura and then find her worthless. He just acted. To me, that’s different than if he genuinely and rationally decided to kill her. More than that though, it’s what I said earlier: it doesn’t feel as though the sane Sasuke’s bond with Sakura is something that this insane Sasuke is able to break. He’s not behaving like himself. He’s like a different person, as Karin has brought up many times recently. Because of that, to me, this action is less severe than if the normal Sasuke had committed it. It’s not meaningless, but it’s not a ship-destroying nuke either.
Hopefully that helps.
Re: Comfort D:
(Anonymous) 2010-02-26 06:48 am (UTC)(link)no subject
Everyone is just too quick to hate this pairing.
Can I ask you you're opinion on NaruHina and Karin?
no subject
no subject
I definitely have to agree about people being too quick to hate the pairing...
As for your questions, NaruHina is my second favorite pairing in Naruto (right after SasuSaku), though after things like chapter 437 I found myself feeling more of a NaruHina craze than what I felt for SasuSaku. I've been pretty indifferent towards Karin for a couple years, but I've started to like her recently after her more humanizing role in the recent arc. Even if she's not one of my favorite characters, I definitely pity her after Sasuke stabbed her, and I'd like to see her become a semi-ally of Konoha (or just Sakura).
As for your other question, NaruSaku is probably my least favorite pairing in this manga. I have a much, much longer explanation on my personal journal (shameless self-plug), but the quick summary is that I definitely haven't had any trouble deciding between it and SasuSaku.
Heyaah
(Anonymous) 2011-06-26 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Heyaah